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First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#491

Post by MarkMarine »

mindslight wrote: post #418
MarkMarine wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before I get painted as a Trump supporter and therefore blind to my team, I’m not. Don’t support him, and when listening to him yell about China virus and then listening to people calmly say that was racism, I went with the calm people. But the man did get the PDB every day. Maybe he heard some of this intelligence and made some leaps to suit his purpose. But if we were all lied to about the origin, our family and fr…

The way humans convince each other of the merits of our ideas is by describing our thought processes. The problem isn't actually something being said by someone who "is" a blowhard, but rather that the thing is being said in a blowhard manner - aggressively asserted, with poor supporting reasoning. If there were concrete supporting evidence for the assertion of "China Virus", it would have been mentioned. There wasn'…

I have to say, this reliance on the government telling the populace the truth if it has it just doesn’t ring true to me.

In recent memory, I’ll point to going to war with Afghanistan, telling the Taliban to pack sand when they offered up Bin Laden, while ignoring Saudi Arabia. Going to war with Iraq over “wmds” and lying to the world about it.

Would the govt tell us that China, a country that owns most of our debt, and is probably the most important trade environment, started this thing and covered it up? They might not.

I understand your instinct to push back against blowhards that confidently proclaim some bullshit, which they only do when it’s expedient and helpful to them. I’m just saying that instinct that I also had might not be good. To discount a whole tree of idea ideas because some jackass is shaking it, maybe just ignore the jackass and still evaluate the ideas.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#493

Post by harry8 »

dvzk wrote: post #449
hindsightbias wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never ceases to amaze me how conspiricists don’t believe anything the government says, but the instant something is congruent they’ll upvote it like wildfire. It makes me question any aspect of “rationalism”

Yes. I've never seen anyone question the accuracy of the Church Committee's disclosures. People who talk about such things are normally eager to say that the US Congress and the CIA can't be trusted. It's just selective skepticism.

>eager to say that the US Congress and the CIA can't be trusted.

This is a truth universally accepted, no? I mean maybe not by some actual, genuine believers in totalitarianism but surely there aren't many of those? Surely?

You never trust people with power. You trust a system of checks and balances precisely because of this. You could even found a nation on that and expect continued support of it.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#494

Post by luuurker »

geuis wrote: post #225

I don't trust this article at all . > Sources within the US government say that three of the earliest people to become infected with SARS-CoV-2 were Ben Hu, Yu Ping, and Yan Zhu. All were members of the Wuhan lab suspected to have leaked the pandemic virus. > It is unclear who in the U.S. government had access to the intelligence about the sick WIV workers, how long they had it, and why it was not shared with the pub…

> I don't trust this article at all.

That's my reaction every time I see `substack.com` in the URL.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#495

Post by kayodelycaon »

CommitSyn wrote: post #478
wavefunction wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Aunt was killed by the flu. She had a pre-existing unknown heart-condition and despite her healthy lifestyle the flu weakened her heart enough that she needed a heart-transplant in her early 20s. She died at age 27. I tell this story whenever it is possible, to educate people about what the flu is capable of doing, whenever someone says the flu is "no big deal." Statistically, perhaps not. Unless you're the statis…

Having had a number of bad colds before I actually got a bad flu, I always thought my colds were the flu. Not a huge deal. When it was confirmed to be the flu when I talked to her later, the mobile doctor said that many people think the same because they tupically don't go to the doctor for confirmation, if the doctor even chooses to test. A real (non-covid) flu had me feeling like I was on death's door for a week, a…

I got H1N1. The only reason I didn’t end up in a hospital was because I forced myself to stay hydrated and somewhat lucid when I wasn’t able to sleep. It was really bad.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#496

Post by gcanyon »

Reason077 wrote: post #286
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You won't have to wait long for confirmation. Confirmation that they were sick. Not confirmation of what they were sick with.

Given the location, the timing, the symptoms, the severity of the illness (it's unusual for 'flu to put healthy young adults in hospital) I think we can be pretty confident in our guess.

The non-lab-leak coincidence required:

    1. They made a mistake in the lab, exposing themselves to a virus (not covid-19)
    2. That virus was non-human-transmissible
    3. The exposure happened 1-several weeks before the actual start of covid-19 at the market
That's not impossible, especially if the lab was sloppy and (1) happened fairly regularly.

Given the early concentration of cases around the market, and the detection of covid-19 on market materials, the lab-leak coincidence seems to be:

    1. They made a mistake in the lab, exposing themselves to covid-19
    2. They nearly-immediately went to the market, and spent significant time there to get the place loaded up with the virus
    3. They didn't go much of anywhere else
    4. They didn't interact much with others at the lab
That's not impossible either, but I don't see that lab-leak scenario appears much more likely than the non-lab-leak scenario.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#497

Post by pezezin »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #495
CommitSyn wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had a number of bad colds before I actually got a bad flu, I always thought my colds were the flu. Not a huge deal. When it was confirmed to be the flu when I talked to her later, the mobile doctor said that many people think the same because they tupically don't go to the doctor for confirmation, if the doctor even chooses to test. A real (non-covid) flu had me feeling like I was on death's door for a week, a…

I got H1N1. The only reason I didn’t end up in a hospital was because I forced myself to stay hydrated and somewhat lucid when I wasn’t able to sleep. It was really bad.

I got a type-A flu this year in early January, and holy shit was it painful, I hadn't been that sick in 25 years. Some co-workers and relatives also got it (in opposite sides of the Earth!) and reported the same, this year the flu was really strong.

In comparison, I had corona last week and it was a walk in the park (I am also quad-vaccinated, that might have helped).

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#498

Post by luuurker »

kornhole wrote: post #298
wsatb wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you need to do is take a quick look at one of the author's other stories[1] and your skepticism will grow further. [1] https://substack.com/@shellenberger

Or it could do the opposite. Both Taibbi and Shellenberger are independent investigative journalists with no party loyalties. Their funding comes directly from readers rather than corporations or billionaire owned outlets. They can make a few mistakes from time to time but own up to them. Their opinions are their own, but they rarely report anything not factual.

I don't know much about them, but this part...

> Their funding comes directly from readers rather than corporations or billionaire owned outlets

... is also problematic.

If I build a following of people with certain views, I'm aware that if I don't reach the conclusions they expect, they'll go away and take my funding with them.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#499

Post by UberFly »

predictabl3 wrote: post #118
UberFly wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct. I guess people can't handle that. This is from the article, it tracks with your sentiment: Said Metzl, “Had US government officials including Dr. Fauci stated from day one that a COVID-19 research-related origin was a very real possibility, and made clear that we had little idea what viruses were being held at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, what work was being done there, and who was doing that wor…

Are we actually claiming that "Virus leak from scary china" would've gotten people to wear masks more or isolate more, versus "Virus killing people keeps spreading?" Or am I missing the point?

If it was available, wouldn't having the actual truth been preferable? I don't get how obfuscation over facts helps anyone.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#500

Post by harry8 »

undersuit wrote: post #486
harry8 wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you look at the investors[0] in Substack FFS this is like claiming you are funded by BoA or JPM if your salary is deposited there. They are literally paid by their subscribers, Substack is a mere payment & publication tool. Substack do not pay them. Moreover w.r.t. Taibbi he has picked fights with his employers and quit at the first hint of them trying to influence his work. His credibility on that front is actu…

"FFS", then I'm going to make the argument that mainstream media is funded by subscribers too! Substack isn't much different from a newspaper.

Mainstream media has "owners" who "fire" editors when they don't like the stories being written. Journalist pitch stories at those editors. See Rupert Murdoch and the Times of London, The News of the World, The Sun, The New York Post, The Wall Street Journal and Fox News. For example, note how many times Tony Blair and separately Gordon Brown sought audiences with Rupert Murdoch.

You subscribe to the NYT or WSJ you use whatever payment gateway they set up and you read content using whatever CMS they employ.

You don't subscribe to substack it isn't possible.

You subscribe to say Racket (which is Taibbi) or separately Shellenberger and use whatever payment gateway they each seperatly set up and you read content using whatever CMS they employ. Substack is a service provider and one they can easily leave as Glenn Greenwald has in the shift of his news service to locals and rumble.

So with this information you can start making better arguments.

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