Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

kguttag.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 105 posts

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#91

Post by wkat4242 »

The5thElephant wrote: post #90
wkat4242 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it does not matter at all. The optics focus it much further away. As far as your eyes are concerned the display isn't right in front of them. In fact if those optics weren't there you wouldn't see anything except a few coloured blobs. The amount of brightness your eyes are ingesting is also much lower than walking around on a sunny day without sunglasses. Remember our eyes work logarithmically so the outside could…

But if I understand correctly the optics can't recreate how our eyes focus on near and far things in reality. So if something is supposed to be 100 meters away it will still be physically like focusing on something 1-2 meters away due to how the optics work. That's the whole VAC issue mentioned in the article.

That's true. They still can't without eye tracking and physically moving lenses. I've seen a prototype in the news that could do that. But of course it's mechanically highly complex. Perhaps liquid/gel lenses could do the same job (similar to how our eyes work).

I've never heard of this actually causing harm though, except some questions were raised about kids whose eyes are still developing. It would be similar to looking through a microscope or binoculars for hours, which is not unheard of in human history (e.g. researchers, lookouts on ships)

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#92

Post by easytiger »

mellosouls wrote: post #59
easytiger wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you game on it?

The Vision Pro? I'm not a game player generally, I bought my Quest 2 for exercise apps and as a platform for investigating developing for VR and working inside the new medium. I agree with your implication this is not an appropriate price format for gaming, but I would have thought the Vision Pro is aimed at more of that latter market; though presumably future less premium models will aim at the gaming and more natur…

It has no controller, you can't game on it

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#93

Post by MuffinFlavored »

liquidise wrote: post #20
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #10

> In many ways, the AVP can be seen as the “Meta Quest Pro done much better.” If you are doing more of a “flagship/Pro product,” it better be a flagship. Ok. I'm fine with being told "you aren't the target audience" but... name 5 things I would do with it if I bought one. Why would I put it on my face/what would I gain from it? Gaming? Productivity? What can it do that a screen + monitor + mouse + keyboard / iPad / i…

I only need to name 1 for myself: i travel a lot and work from a laptop often. AVP feels like an obvious choice for development if it delivers on the vision (heh). Working without a dedicated desk space, laptop stand, separate monitor, etc, laptop work just pales in productivity and comfort to my multi-monitor desk setup at home. A wearable that acts as if i have floating monitors anywhere sounds like a massive win,…

> AVP feels like an obvious choice for development if it delivers on the vision (heh).

I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing this in public around strangers whatsoever.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#94

Post by liquidise »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #93
liquidise wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only need to name 1 for myself: i travel a lot and work from a laptop often. AVP feels like an obvious choice for development if it delivers on the vision (heh). Working without a dedicated desk space, laptop stand, separate monitor, etc, laptop work just pales in productivity and comfort to my multi-monitor desk setup at home. A wearable that acts as if i have floating monitors anywhere sounds like a massive win,…

> AVP feels like an obvious choice for development if it delivers on the vision (heh). I wouldn't feel comfortable wearing this in public around strangers whatsoever.

Is the hesitance for social norm/style reasons?

Similarly, i wouldn't wear it at a coffee shop. But i could see it coming into style at co-working spaces. It feels like a no brainer in hotel rooms and airbnb's.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#95

Post by AndrewKemendo »

jwagenet wrote: post #57
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the current use cases for AR?

I think one of the better potential use cases for AR is for manufacturing work instructions. Typically, these are in binders or displayed on screens, but highlighting assembly steps, part orientations/locations, etc virtually would be especially nice for training or infrequent operations which don’t happen at a seated workstation. I believe Glass and some other products were exploring this space, but it could be that…

Heads up display for cycling/navigating

Fundamentally though I see AR as how we give our AI personal assistants our eyes ears and real life action space evaluator.

Everything from highlighting objects you’re searching for to giving instant information about anything you look at that you want to know about.

It will also give you perfect recall

Hey siri where did I leave that toilet brush two weeks ago? How many pages of [Book] did I read on average last week? What was that pattern that [person] wearing when we were at the farmers market last week?

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#96

Post by Aerbil313 »

chis wrote: post #32
Aerbil313 wrote: post #9

I’ve just learned the Vergence-accommodation conflict [1]. VR/AR, from now on is a no-go for me. It never came to my mind that those headsets had such a problem. We’re talking about an accommodation distance of what, three centimeters? I’m already on my way to reverse my myopia, sorry, I can’t take an even more unhealthy visual environment [3]. Half of the world is already on its way to be myopic by 2050 according to…

The accomodation distance can be set to any value by the headset lens design. The problem he's discussing is that you can't change the distance depending on the content shown. Probably apple is setting the distance to 1 meter since that's where they show all their content at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergence-accommodation_conflic...

Oh thanks! I understood, but why is there written "VR headset screen" in the image in the wikipedia page? Probably a mistake, right? It confused me.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#97

Post by Aerbil313 »

losvedir wrote: post #75
Aerbil313 wrote: post #9

I’ve just learned the Vergence-accommodation conflict [1]. VR/AR, from now on is a no-go for me. It never came to my mind that those headsets had such a problem. We’re talking about an accommodation distance of what, three centimeters? I’m already on my way to reverse my myopia, sorry, I can’t take an even more unhealthy visual environment [3]. Half of the world is already on its way to be myopic by 2050 according to…

No, you misunderstand. The lenses between your eyes and the screens will give it a focal distance of something like ~2 meters. So from an eye health / focus point of view it will be like staring at a wall 2 meters away all day (which is possibly better than staring at a computer screen .5m away!). This is why nearsighted people still need some sort of accommodation in VR. The thing to realize is there's two different…

I undersood now, the text "VR headset screen" in the wikipedia page confused me. FYI, the latter one, individual eye's focus is the one which causes myopia.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#98

Post by the_gipsy »

cassianoleal wrote: post #71
the_gipsy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that iPad made reading or watching videos better, when you don't wanna use a laptop/pc/tv. Give me one thing that those goggles let me do or do better right now.

Arguably, the same. You can watch videos in what amounts to a very large screen, with ambiance added to the backdrop, anywhere. Watching videos on a plane or train will get a massive boost. Given that an iPad Pro with max specs is about 2/3 of the announced price of the goggles, I think the goggles are in fact at an advantage.

Plane and train rides. That's it. Not even public transport, for several reasons.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#99

Post by cassianoleal »

the_gipsy wrote: post #98
cassianoleal wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably, the same. You can watch videos in what amounts to a very large screen, with ambiance added to the backdrop, anywhere. Watching videos on a plane or train will get a massive boost. Given that an iPad Pro with max specs is about 2/3 of the announced price of the goggles, I think the goggles are in fact at an advantage.

Plane and train rides. That's it. Not even public transport, for several reasons.

Not sure what your reasons are, but on a 30min-1h trip on the London Tube, I can see the appeal and not many reasons to not use it. Keep the "real world" somewhat visible for awareness and enjoy. Not much different from taking my laptop out and coding on it.

Re: Karl Guttag on Apple Vision Pro (Part 1)

#100

Post by fmajid »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #38
oh_sigh wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is being forced by the EU DMA law to allow support for alternate app stores by 2024 - I imagine the same would hold true for the vision pro. I guess it depends if VR goggles are viewed as an entirely separate category of product, or if they are essentially just "smart phones with a fancy display".

>Apple is being forced by the EU DMA law to allow support for alternate app stores by 2024 As always, I'm waiting to see the final implementation before rejoicing prematurely. Appel can always intentionally maliciously screw with the implementation of this law in so many ways, in order to make sideloading an unattractive proposition for the majority, but that is still compliant with the law, like they did with the se…

Re: GDPR, enforcement matters. GDPR enforcement was left to the DPA of the country where the EU HQ of the company is located, and the Irish DPA clearly sees itself as an arm of the Irish Development Agency tasked with making Ireland as congenial a venue for multinationals as possible, not on a mission to defend consumers' privacy. The EU learned its lesson and the implementation of DSA and DMA will not be left to compromised national authorities.
Post reply on HN