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First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#61

Post by zaroth »

methodical wrote: post #48
scoofy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also... I mean, unless I've created a false memory, I specifically remember that the discussion at the time was about a the virus literally being a bio-weapon, and not actually the entirely plausible, accidental escape of a virus. I've always had a completely open mind about it, even if experts have repeatedly suggested that it's plausible, but unlikely. Those prattling on about how "people called us crazy" that it w…

This. I have a few family members very deep in the weeds (QAnon, Cabal, One World Order type of crap) and they love to play this narrative. In reality it seemed like it was rather obvious to anybody who looked at the facts that this pandemic had dubious origins. Just a few of these were the close proximity, same family of viruses being researched, mysterious personnel changes around the time of the initial spread, et…

I can never understand if someone actually believes this or is just actively gaslighting.

Anyone trying to discuss even the possibility of a lab leak was called xenophobic, a conspiracy theorist, banned from socials…

Funny thing when the “conspiracy theorists” keep turning out to be right.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#63

Post by [deleted] »

hwillis wrote: post #23
mc32 wrote: post #15

So… finally what lots of people were claiming but got censored on social media as well as mainstream media during the pandemic is being acknowledged and verified by the government. Follow up. Given statements to congress by government officials to Congress, under oath, that would contradict this conclusion, will there be repercussions for misleading the public, lawmakers and the scientific community? PS: It was never…

"finally"? This was put out in the state department Jan 2021, 2.5 years ago: https://2017-2021.state.gov/fact-sheet-activity-at-the-wuhan... > The U.S. government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both COVID-19 and common seasonal illnesses.

[deleted]

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#65

Post by onethought »

ChemSpider wrote: post #57
jb12 wrote: post #30

> "If you knew that this was likely a lab-enhanced pathogen, there are so many things you could have done differently" I'm curious - if we knew in March 2020 that covid came from a lab, what _would_ we have done differently?

If the lab leak story is correct, the WIV people knew somewhere inbetween September...November 2019 that the virus leaked.

That’s not true, a leak could occur without them realising. Getting cold and flu symptoms in winter wouldn’t raise too many suspicions.

Given they didn’t start any containment procedures either they didn’t know or that’s not how it happened

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#66

Post by dwater »

nidhalbt wrote: post #37

There's a problem, covid was in Italy as early as September 2019. (see Dr John Campbell's video on this) Cases in November 2019 aren't early, it started probably six months earlier.

"John Lorimer Campbell is an English YouTuber and retired nurse educator known for his videos about the COVID-19 pandemic. Initially, the videos received praise, but they later veered into misinformation. He has been criticised for suggesting COVID-19 deaths have been over-counted, repeating false claims about the use of ivermectin as a COVID-19 treatment, and providing misleading commentary about the safety of COVID-19 vaccines.

...

He holds a diploma in nursing from the University of London, a BSc in biology from the Open University, an MSc in health science from the University of Lancaster, and a Ph.D. in nursing from the University of Bolton. He received the Ph.D. for his work on developing methods of teaching via digital media such as online videos."

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)

For anyone wondering who this is and if he is a reliable source.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#67

Post by D13Fd »

ChemSpider wrote: post #57
jb12 wrote: post #30

> "If you knew that this was likely a lab-enhanced pathogen, there are so many things you could have done differently" I'm curious - if we knew in March 2020 that covid came from a lab, what _would_ we have done differently?

If the lab leak story is correct, the WIV people knew somewhere inbetween September...November 2019 that the virus leaked.

Why is that true? I would think you could have an undetected leak.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#68

Post by mc32 »

api wrote: post #35
mc32 wrote: post #15

So… finally what lots of people were claiming but got censored on social media as well as mainstream media during the pandemic is being acknowledged and verified by the government. Follow up. Given statements to congress by government officials to Congress, under oath, that would contradict this conclusion, will there be repercussions for misleading the public, lawmakers and the scientific community? PS: It was never…

I recall reading credible scientists talking about a lab leak from day one, and I always considered it a possibility. Yet many of the people pushing it on social media were pushing it as a 100% certainty and even that it was some kind of intentional bio-weapon attack. The people getting banned for this were conspiritainment grifters and people pushing fascist politics. The most effective way to cover something up is…

You see... a grain of truth. Yes, in the very beginning is was allowed, but come May and June, it was verboten.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#69

Post by jchw »

scoofy wrote: post #18
indigodaddy wrote: post #7

‘Said Metzl, “Had US government officials including Dr. Fauci stated from day one that a COVID-19 research-related origin was a very real possibility, and made clear that we had little idea what viruses were being held at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, what work was being done there, and who was doing that work, our national and global conversations would have been dramatically different. The time has come for a fu…

Also... I mean, unless I've created a false memory, I specifically remember that the discussion at the time was about a the virus literally being a bio-weapon, and not actually the entirely plausible, accidental escape of a virus. I've always had a completely open mind about it, even if experts have repeatedly suggested that it's plausible, but unlikely. Those prattling on about how "people called us crazy" that it w…

I knew this would happen, so much so I'm pretty sure I even called it ahead of time. This happens so frequently that there ought to be a word for it.

Yes, some conservative personalities early on had pushed some dumb conspiracies about COVID-19 being a bioweapon. No, that was not the crux of the argument that the many scientists, journalists and internet commenters had when they argued in favor of the lab leak hypothesis. Now I personally was never very attached to the theory, but I absolutely believed that we should have researched whether or not COVID-19 was indeed leaked from a lab. An actual argument against my position was that we shouldn't as it would only further fuel racism, xenophobia and geopolitical tensions even if it were true. There was also a lot of backlash against researchers who wanted investigation into the lab leak theory, probably for similar reasons.

There's always amnesia about things like this, but I'm pretty sure COVID-19 has become a case study on how not to handle a pandemic. A lot of what happened gave people a legitimate reason to distrust authority, and if we pretend that never happened things will simply continue to get worse as it repeats indefinitely.

Again, I do agree that it was annoying seeing it become a political culture war issue about a conspiracy vs "trusting the science", but that is certainly not what I believe the majority of the lab leak hypothesis was angling for.

Wikipedia even helpfully separates the two ideas into separate articles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lab_leak_theory

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_misinformation#Bio-we...

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#70

Post by onethought »

mlyle wrote: post #38
rovolo wrote: post #25

The title says "sickened by Covid-19", but the text says "developed COVID-19-like illnesses in November 2019".

Yes. We don't have swabs that we can perform PCR on. On the other hand, this report, if true: - Sickened about a month before COVID-19 was formally detected - In close proximity to where COVID-19 was formally detected - While doing research on gain of function in coronaviruses. This is strongly suggestive circumstantial evidence.

Close proximity is a bit of a stretch. This shows people catching colds in winter. The rest is speculation
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