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APIs for content sites must be free

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Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#71

Post by Aerroon »

amelius wrote: post #28
zoogeny wrote: post #13

I like vehement arguments even when I disagree with them. Based on this man's logic, if I were to run a web forum then I must provide an API or data dump to download the posts created by the users? How about a comment section on my blog? How about a community Discord server? Why not Facebook posts? Or Instagram stories? I often get the feeling that in these circumstances people derive first principles from specific d…

> I often get the feeling that in these circumstances people derive first principles from specific desired outcomes. But that's exactly how laws are made. E.g. why do we have consumer protection? Because it helps us! It's democracy in action. It's not like nobody would ever build another forum if there were laws like the ones proposed by GP. And if you're worried that every little forum should comply to complicated l…

>It's not like nobody would ever build another forum if there were laws like the ones proposed by GP.

Won't they just build the forums in other jurisdictions then? How many European forums do you frequent? I barely visit any.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#72

Post by SoftTalker »

"If a company like Reddit or Twitter derives most of its value from content that users write for free then it must provide APIs for anyone to download and manipulate that content."

I disagree that Reddit or Twitter derive value from content. They derive value from eyeballs and showing ads to those eyeballs. If people use APIs as a way to feed their eyeballs without looking at the ads, then Reddit or Twitter gain nothing in exchange for their massive expense of the hardware and staff required to run these services.

The other option is that people would pay to use Reddit or Twitter. But they would lose 90% of their users if they took that route, because what they do does not provide enough value that a typical user would pay for it. For most people, Reddit and Twitter are time sinks: mindless entertainment to consume to pass the time. In a prior generation they would be watching TV game shows or soap operas. They wouldn't pay $10 a month to use it, or even $10/year. They would just jump to the next best free platform and continue there.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#73

Post by keneda7 »

TheCoreh wrote: post #52
zoogeny wrote: post #13

I like vehement arguments even when I disagree with them. Based on this man's logic, if I were to run a web forum then I must provide an API or data dump to download the posts created by the users? How about a comment section on my blog? How about a community Discord server? Why not Facebook posts? Or Instagram stories? I often get the feeling that in these circumstances people derive first principles from specific d…

> Based on this man's logic, if I were to run a web forum then I must provide an API or data dump to download the posts created by the users? How about a comment section on my blog? How about a community Discord server? Why not Facebook posts? Or Instagram stories? Yes? I don't think it's a very radical, unreasonable or difficult thing to provide: this is available as a first class feature on most blogging/forum soft…

>Yes? I don't think it's a very radical, unreasonable or difficult thing to provide: this is available as a first class feature on most blogging/forum software (RSS feeds) and wasn't even remotely controversial 10–12 years ago.

I think demanding someone pay server bills so you can freely access data they have stored on their hardware (to make yourself money) is radical and unreasonable in every way. If it is an education service or something I can see your point and may agree with you. But that is not what is happening. It is people using reddit's resources to make money for themselves.

Reddit has the right to want fair compensation for use of its service in a commercial manner.

We have the right to stop using reddit if we don't like it.

We have the right to run a service that does give free api access if we see it as reasonable.

We do not have the right to force reddit to provide us free access to their resources. That is completely unreasonable and would be no different than me going to you and saying you must give me access to all your credit cards and let me use them because I feel like I should have it.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#75

Post by ProllyInfamous »

xeromal wrote: post #59
simonw wrote: post #53

I've found myself resisting posting comments on Reddit recently - things like answers to simple questions people have about SQLite - partly because I don't want to cross the picket line but also because I realize that I was relying on a very light social contract that was in place there: I would share my knowledge for free, in exchange for which I knew that I was contributing to a larger dataset that myself and other…

I blocked reddit in my hosts file and have found my news through other means. Here and fark.com lol

Same on my local PiHole =D

It's worked the couple times I instinctively sought reddit advice.

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#77

Post by digitalsushi »

dvt wrote: post #68
derefr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking of a legal contract. A social contract is what two sides do in practice in order to not piss the other off.

I know exactly what a social contract is, and it's always superseded by a legal contract (which the ToS sort-of is, though it would have to go through the courts if challenged). Given that the ToS explicitly says that Reddit et al. can do whatever they want with your data, the idea that there's a social contract there is wishful thinking.

I get what simonw is saying though.

Reddit: We could sell API access to your answers, per our TOS

reddit poster: k

Reddit: We're gonna sell API access to your answers, per our TOS

reddit poster: then nevermind

Both have a superseding TOS but the social contract is still appreciable

Re: APIs for content sites must be free

#80

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

dvt wrote: post #68
derefr wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking of a legal contract. A social contract is what two sides do in practice in order to not piss the other off.

I know exactly what a social contract is, and it's always superseded by a legal contract (which the ToS sort-of is, though it would have to go through the courts if challenged). Given that the ToS explicitly says that Reddit et al. can do whatever they want with your data, the idea that there's a social contract there is wishful thinking.

> wishful thinking

It remains to be seen who is thinking wishfully. If Reddit dies because their users all go away, there really may have been a social contract which Reddit breached. Reddit has a ToS which may attempt to supersede such a social contract but it doesn't necessarily.

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