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EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

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Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#81

Post by pmoriarty »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #58
pmoriarty wrote: post #48

"The Commission is concerned that Google’s allegedly intentional conducts aimed at giving [Google’s ad exchange] AdX a competitive advantage and may have foreclosed rival ad exchanges." So the goal is for there to be more competition among advertisers? That might help ad purchasers (ie. mostly corporations), but consumers are still going to be screwed as this does nothing to stop the spying and advertising that are w…

Competition is good. Fracturing the market means it's harder for any one actor to have all the information, and encourages the industry to look for other models.

One actor may not get that information directly, but it will still be bought and sold, like any other commodity.

Unless the information is impossible to collect in the first place, it will be collected, traded, and consolidated.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#82

Post by Gareth321 »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #22

Google will rather split up the internet by pulling out of Europe than follow this. And isn't ads the only profitable business Google has? If they sell it, there Google search, Gmail etc couldn't exist.

EMEA is Google's second largest market, and it's not even close for competition. There is no way Google would be willing to cut revenue by $90 billion annually. It would be corporate suicide. The single greatest loss event of investor capital in history.

They'll comply, just like Apple will comply with the DMA. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. Unlike the U.S., E.U lawmakers can't be bought.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#83

Post by zmgsabst »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #24
flexie wrote: post #2

Before anyone makes the argument that the EU should have no jurisdiction over an American entity, please remember that Google sells its services in Europe. It's well within the jurisdiction of the EU to regulate how anyone does business here. Google Ireland alone had a 50B euro turnover. The breaking up of monopolies used to be in the toolbox of American antitrust policies, back when America enforced antitrust legisl…

I used to believe that company breakups should happen automatically when they reach 1% of the country's GDP. There are lots of ways companies could avoid having the government decide how to break them up such as issuing dividends instead of hording cash, spinning off non-core businesses, setting up independent IP companies that would license back IP to the core company (and as an indpendent company, be required to li…

I think what we’re seeing with “too big to fail” is that it also means “too big to succeed”.

Personally, I suspect that the 20 companies each at 1% GDP will out perform the 20% company in most or even all markets. (Setting aside the issue of relative GDP between nations.)

Often, the bazaar is more effective than the cathedral.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#84

Post by gsatic »

seydor wrote: post #20

it would be better if they broke the ad exchange from the rest. a google without the ad revenue doesnt make sense

They need to cap how many ads get served.

Currently they can serve up ads for every possible search query typed or inject any number of ads surrounding every page you visit, so my grandma can barely use her phone without touching an ad.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#85

Post by izacus »

senttoschool wrote: post #17
stefan_ wrote: post #11

Is there anyone who would seriously disagree ?

I disagree. I think this sets a bad precedence. Who's next? Apple? Microsoft? There needs to be some formal process in which countries can vote/object to these things. Breaking up Google has ramifications for the entire world. Europe should not abuse this sort of power. I don't see Europe breaking up Luxottica, LVHM, De Beers Group.

> I disagree. I think this sets a bad precedence. Who's next? Apple?

Yes please. If we want healthy competitive markets, we need smaller companies that actually _COMPETE_ and their products can be mixed and matched so the customers vote with their wallets and not CEOs with their lobbying checks.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#86

Post by toyg »

gylterud wrote: post #67
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to believe that company breakups should happen automatically when they reach 1% of the country's GDP. There are lots of ways companies could avoid having the government decide how to break them up such as issuing dividends instead of hording cash, spinning off non-core businesses, setting up independent IP companies that would license back IP to the core company (and as an indpendent company, be required to li…

How about an automatic nationalisation in stead? Where you take companies which have grown too big out of the private ownership’s hands.

This is Hacker News, you can't say the N word here.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#87

Post by CogitoCogito »

Fyrezerk wrote: post #40
hfkwer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How quickly would public opinion change if Google decided to just shut off their service in the EU for a day? Always this same old tune. Do you realize how outlandish and naive it is to even suggest that? Google is fighting tooth and nail to make sure that EU laws are laxist. You know why? Because they know that they will have to comply, in the end. The market is just too big to let go of. And I don't think you're…

My point, though, is where do we draw the line between antitrust enforcement because it serves the public's best interest, and enforcement that results in a net negative experience?

This same reasoning applies in basically all aspects of law. Someone or some people make a judgement call.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#88

Post by viraptor »

Fyrezerk wrote: post #10

These rulings for a company of Google's stature/importance are always funny to me. How quickly would public opinion change if Google decided to just shut off their service in the EU for a day? Monopolistic breakups that serve the public's best interest are one thing. But how many people actually care that Google might represent a monopoly? Does it actually affect people negatively if the result is a positive online u…

> Does it actually affect people negatively if the result is a positive online user experience?

More and more the positive experience is disputable. Both for users (result quality keeps falling) and advertisers (they're the ad exchange that matters).

> The world runs on Google and forcing that to change seems like a step backwards at first glance.

That's the monopoly part. There's more candidates who will get increased use if Google's search-ad feedback loop goes away. Every time someone too big to fail is finally broken up, we get a small step backwards... ideally we get a big step towards as a result.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#89

Post by Detrytus »

heywhatupboys wrote: post #70
panragon wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google Ireland alone had a 50B euro turnover. Not to discredit the rest of what you're saying, because it is true the EU has jurisdiction and that anti-trust is a lost art in many places in the world. Still, saying Google Ireland 'alone' is a bit funny when Google (like all multinationals) is known to take advantage of Ireland's tax laws to funnel as much of their EU business through. Whatever money Google is making…

well, that still means they have to follow Irish law. Just like shipping companies register their ships in other countries, that means they have to follow their laws too.

yes, but that's not the point of GP comment. Saying "Ireland alone has $50B turnover" might make someone think: "Wow, if they make so much money from such a small country, then how much do they make in the entire Europe?". And the answer to that is: $50B. There's not a single euro-cent is earned in Europe that does not go through Ireland.

Re: EU suggests breaking up Google's ad business in preliminary antitrust ruling

#90

Post by pb7 »

piaste wrote: post #47
Fyrezerk wrote: post #10

These rulings for a company of Google's stature/importance are always funny to me. How quickly would public opinion change if Google decided to just shut off their service in the EU for a day? Monopolistic breakups that serve the public's best interest are one thing. But how many people actually care that Google might represent a monopoly? Does it actually affect people negatively if the result is a positive online u…

> How quickly would public opinion change if Google decided to just shut off their service in the EU for a day? Very quickly - against Google. The fact that European citizens have critical business ties to Google (from GSuite to YT partners) is a sword that cuts both ways. It means the EU can't simply shut Google down on a whim; but it also means that Google can't just throw a tantrum and put up a black page saying "…

How does Google disallow competition? China managed to overtake the top spot for social media so it's not impossible. Europe just can't build, period.
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