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Reddit Doubles Down

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Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#341

Post by lost_tourist »

Terr_ wrote: post #81
extr wrote: post #38

I don't really understand why it had to be this way. It's so easy to think of other ways this could have been handled. Even just announcing the same change with 6 months of lead time rather than 1 month would have gone over better. Or boil the frog and gradually introduce API restrictions. It's as if the CEO is purposefully being as belligerent as possible to rile people up.

> It's so easy to think of other ways this could have been handled. Well, assuming Reddit executives were telling the truth about their goals/needs, which I don't think they are. They claim the purpose was some kind of emergency band-aid to stop the service from hemorrhaging cash from evil large-scale data-sucking AI developers without compensation... But in that case, they could have simply introduced it as a fresh…

They could have set up a signature with 3rd party apps, those apps could have have charged the apps a couple bucks/required ads in the feeds from reddit/etc. Instead they wanted 100% control and 100% of the data. This isn't -just- about killing off AI scrapers, this is about sending a message that reddit is 100% under the CEO's control for when they have the IPO. Wallstreet does not like "free" stuff, all they see are cost centers and profit centers.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#343

Post by lenerdenator »

perrohunter wrote: post #297
CommitSyn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they're broke and reddit is soon to be bankrupt. But even so, if they had just said that, the outcome would be so much different. Because as of now it seems like they're fucking people over for the sake of fucking them over.

How is charging for an API which costs them money "fucking people over"?

To me, there's a way that business relationships are carried out; you can deliver bad news to industry partners in a professional manner.

If Huffman had called up guys like Christian Selig a while back and been like "Listen, it's been great, I love the apps you guys make, but business is business and I want to see more revenue, and to do that I'm going to charge more for the API and probably eventually shut it down, let's work on a timetable to sunset things.", he's not nearly the jerk he is today. No one's under the illusion that Reddit or Conde Nast are charities; they have revenue targets to make.

What makes this fucking people over is the negotiating over API price and implementation timetable that was clearly in bad faith and meant to shut down these applications within the timespan of a quarter. Imagine being told that your way of making a living (which these apps are for their developers) is going away in a month. Sure, these devs are the cream of the crop, but that's still a major life disruption, and you don't do that to the people who helped make your website what it is today.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#344

Post by was8309 »

wolverine876 wrote: post #278
extr wrote: post #38

I don't really understand why it had to be this way. It's so easy to think of other ways this could have been handled. Even just announcing the same change with 6 months of lead time rather than 1 month would have gone over better. Or boil the frog and gradually introduce API restrictions. It's as if the CEO is purposefully being as belligerent as possible to rile people up.

> It's as if the CEO is purposefully being as belligerent as possible to rile people up. The CEO is following the new leadership playbook, which you should recognize by now, as it's used by Musk, crypto leaders, Zuckerberg, and many more inside and outside of tech. * Fundamentally it's just following the social (media) trend: Demonstrate brazen, over-the-top arrogance, disregard for consequences, and no empathy. I'm…

I'm very interested in the recent origins of this playbook. 'never apologize, never explain' is really old, but it seems to be a thing now

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#345

Post by nocoiner »

shagie wrote: post #309
nocoiner wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, at some threshold, of course a lower price would have changed the outcome. It sounds like the Apollo dev thought API costs came in at 10-20x what he’d been expecting. I think there’s obviously a huge difference between paying Reddit, say, 50 cents of a $3 net payment (assuming a sub for the app is $5/month) and having a $5/user/month cover charge to Reddit as the price of admission, and then having to build a via…

The average user doing ~300 api calls per day would do about 9000 calls per month and at $0.24/1k calls would be $2/user Apollo also does polling of the message box for each user for push notifications ( https://github.com/christianselig/apollo-backend/blob/main/i... ) which currently has a rate of 1/minute/user. This is another 1.4k calls per day and changes the price that would be paid. Current rate: https://github…

OK, so whatever numbers you want to use, whether it’s $2 in direct Reddit api access charges or $5, same order of magnitude, probably neither moves the needle that much relative to the other.

But I think there’s a huge difference between that charge being 20 cents and $2 (or 50 cents and $5).

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#346

Post by Semaphor »

whatsuphotdog wrote: post #40

I love that the CEO calls the users voicing their displeasure "noise". When those users voice opinions on other things, it's called content. When those users voice their opinions against reddit, it's noise. Hoffman continues to display a fundamental misunderstanding of what Reddit is. The very people that give your platform its value are revolting against you, and you think it's noise. What's your product? What do yo…

I kinda agree, but on the other hand, the statistics were sad. The site I used [0] is currently down, but from what I remember, even with so many subreddits being private, posts per minute went from 1.2k to 1k, and comments per minute from 8k to 7k (talking about the peaks of the curve in both cases).

That is a pretty low reduction and imo shows how those of us who care are not a majority, and the whole thing might end up being nothing more than a gamer-protest.

edit: back up, peak comments from below 7k to below 6k; peak posts from about 1.2k to 1.1k

[0]: https://blackout.photon-reddit.com/

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#347

Post by jjulius »

paxys wrote: post #323
jjulius wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I guess I assumed nobody had created an alternative NBA subreddit during the drama that OP highlighted - my fault for being flippant. If anything, the fact that r/NBA2, and a bunch of other similar subs that a flagged comment mentioned in response to me, already exist only further highlights the absurdity of the claim that there's nowhere to discuss the game if r/NBA is blacked out.

A thousand people create alternative NBA subs and discussion boards every day. How will everyone know which exact one of them to go to? If you think the solution to blocking a sub (or all of Reddit) is "a hundred million people can just all decide to go somewhere else the next day", you fundamentally misunderstand how the community and network effect works.

I mean, it's really not at all that difficult to search for subs on Reddit and see how active they are, and then subscribe accordingly and join in on the convo. Who cares if everyone goes to the exact same one? If people spread out to a few active subs, then the discussions will continue there. A few million here, a few million there.

Some of that hundred million would disappear, sure, but hey - what percentage of subscribers are relatively inactive anyway?

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#348

Post by redsaber »

pkulak wrote: post #276
judge2020 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An influx of capital would be easier by making everyone pay $10/mo to access the API via third-party clients. Would still be unpopular but would mean people could still have the experience they want to see from reddit. but that's the issue - Reddit's been focusing on other forms of content only in the native Reddit app, like TikTok-esque live streams and promoted posts from subs you aren't subscribed to.

How much would it cost at the July 1 API prices? If it's less than $10/month, why didn't all these apps just go subscription only?

people also complain that even if they pay the API, they aren't getting the NSFW which is like you have paid the product, you should get the full product

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#349

Post by modshatereality »

I'm confused by this whole thing, do the mods not realize how easily they can be replaced? Without any leadership or strategy moving forward this "movement" is doomed. Who decided the winning strategy was to basically quit? What are they hoping happens here, reddit opens up negotiations? LOL, you're handing them the keys to your subreddits DERP. Pretty much par for reddit mods though so why am i expecting some kind of cohesive plan? I'll see myself out now.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#350

Post by xatax »

mulmen wrote: post #262
xatax wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snoo is the name of the reddit alien. I believe it was going to be the original name of the site (what's new - what'S NOO). Since "redditor" is a community name, it makes sense there would be a different internal/employee demonym and Snoo fits the site as good as any other name might.

Here’s an idea, call them employees.

Every company I've ever worked for has had some sort of name for their employees. It's probably supposed to foster some sense of community/belonging.

You're welcome to take the cynical approach to that, sure, but I've never felt it to be a particularly harmful thing. It's good to have some semblance of a friendly culture, if only to break up the day.

Some people will like it and I'm sure some people hate it. I've never given it a second thought though.

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