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Reddit Doubles Down

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Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#271

FTA: > the number of Reddits that have gone dark expanded from around 7,000 to more than 8,400 Annoyingly, there's no context for these numbers. Is this 10% of all subreddits? 90%? Does it cover half of all users? They're meaningless numbers that "sound big."

There are millions of subreddits, but with the volume of subreddits "dark" and some of the largest ones joining in, it's likely to have had a significant effect on a majority of Reddit users, and a decent part of the wider internet. Cumulatively (adding up the member counts), 3 billion "accounts"/subscriptions have been effected.

8k is very significant

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#272
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I am sorry to say this, but please be mindful of wearing Reddit gear in public. Some folks are really upset, and we don’t want you to be the object of their frustrations.” Overreaction much ? Are we really become that desensitized as a society? I find that hard to believe.

Did you see the death threats in the github copilot copyright case?

I haven’t. Where can I read about that?

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#273
post #132

All they had to do was make API access require Premium. $4/month and all the pieces were laying there. Thats twice as much monthly profit as their current super inflated API pricing would bring them for the same users. Reddit made themselves a real mess here and it's all SO stupid.

I'd pay that to not have to use their awful mobile app or new.reddit

> I'd pay that to not have to use their awful mobile app or new.reddit

How much are you willing to pay?

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#274
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh...the real problem with shutting down Apollo is that it makes the volunteer moderators lives much harder. Those are the people who provide any value to reddit as a platform. The protest could end today, the 3rd party apps go...and if the volunteer mods go with it, then the site as a whole tumbles onto a decline that eventually kills it.

This. Have you ever seen unmoderated Reddit, it’s called 4chan.

This comparison doesn't really work because 4chan boards tend to be pretty strictly moderated. It's just that the threshold of what's considered acceptable is lower.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#275
post #38

I don't really understand why it had to be this way. It's so easy to think of other ways this could have been handled. Even just announcing the same change with 6 months of lead time rather than 1 month would have gone over better. Or boil the frog and gradually introduce API restrictions. It's as if the CEO is purposefully being as belligerent as possible to rile people up.

I don't understand why the users aren't just leaving? Surely the software/infrastructure can't be that hard to replicate, especially on a "subreddit" level?

Why don't a few big mods just go this route and tell everyone else?

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they're broke and reddit is soon to be bankrupt. But even so, if they had just said that, the outcome would be so much different. Because as of now it seems like they're fucking people over for the sake of fucking them over.

An influx of capital would be easier by making everyone pay $10/mo to access the API via third-party clients. Would still be unpopular but would mean people could still have the experience they want to see from reddit. but that's the issue - Reddit's been focusing on other forms of content only in the native Reddit app, like TikTok-esque live streams and promoted posts from subs you aren't subscribed to.

How much would it cost at the July 1 API prices? If it's less than $10/month, why didn't all these apps just go subscription only?

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An influx of capital would be easier by making everyone pay $10/mo to access the API via third-party clients. Would still be unpopular but would mean people could still have the experience they want to see from reddit. but that's the issue - Reddit's been focusing on other forms of content only in the native Reddit app, like TikTok-esque live streams and promoted posts from subs you aren't subscribed to.

It seems like they realized the value of user content for AI training too late, and are trying to hamfistedly lock down the golden egg goose for their upcoming IPO.

Adding .json to any url still gives you everything in json. This has to do with 3rd party clients not showing ads and making up the revenue lost.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#278
post #38

I don't really understand why it had to be this way. It's so easy to think of other ways this could have been handled. Even just announcing the same change with 6 months of lead time rather than 1 month would have gone over better. Or boil the frog and gradually introduce API restrictions. It's as if the CEO is purposefully being as belligerent as possible to rile people up.

> It's as if the CEO is purposefully being as belligerent as possible to rile people up.

The CEO is following the new leadership playbook, which you should recognize by now, as it's used by Musk, crypto leaders, Zuckerberg, and many more inside and outside of tech.

* Fundamentally it's just following the social (media) trend: Demonstrate brazen, over-the-top arrogance, disregard for consequences, and no empathy. I'm sure people recognize that pattern.

* Applied to CEO roles, it means publicly demonstrating contempt toward groups of people who are (individually) weaker than you, including employees, customers, protestors, etc. And it means disregard for consequences, such as Musk's actions when bidding $40 billion for Twitter, and afterward; or much of what has happened in crypto. It demonstrates your power, demonstrates their powerlessness (if they capitulate), and makes you look like you have extreme confidence and little empathy - which is very trendy now, of course. Disregard for consequences works until they occur. It's basic con-person tactics, the most obvious bad sales techniques.

* When challenged, act more aggressively or with more contempt. Double down.

* Play the victim and characterize those who oppose you as violent threats - which again shows disinterest and contempt for them and their arguments. One remarkable place you can see it is some US Supreme Court justices - it's such a powerful trend in 'leadership' that these people with untouchable lifetime positions even do it. (In case you missed it, Reddit's CEO used this technique.)

These 'leaders' protray themselves as brilliant, innovative, and highly capable, and people assume they must be - after all, they run these big companies. They are just corrupt and swept up in the latest fashion. Power corrupts, no surprise.

The sad part is that I see many on the other side of these issues actually believe this crap - they believe they are powerless and unilaterally disarm, as if the leaders are using the Force when they say, 'you have no power' - 'Oh, I guess I have no power' and they despair. (And then they tell everyone else the same.)

At the cost of a little faith in demoracy (write large - the power of individuals working together), they hold all the power. Our ancestors who in the same way built much of the freedom and society we have now, must be amazed. We just give it all away. The worst of our society haven't given it away - look at Bud Light. Reddit should be toast, or at least the CEO. People just wake up and act.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I think that this is a turning point for Reddit but not towards failure: they’re ditching the hardcore nerd audience that made them. But they’ve long since outgrown that audience and will likely (as a company) do just fine without them. As a community there will be a notable loss.

They better get their buck quick before investors realize what that means for the future of content on reddit. Because much as some folks here seem to believe, there IS actually more to reddit, reddit as it exists today, than just ad impression counts. I'm not some social media genius but the way that this being talked about by some people, who I guess haven't been a part of reddit over 17+ years, I am flabbergasted…

> how y'all think these things grow and thrive

Reddit has grown and has thrived, now the company is prioritising turning on the money tap. They’re prepared to lose X users if it means they can monetise the remaining users by Y amount.

I’m not saying this as a defence, I’ve also been using Reddit for 15+ years and I’m disappointed by what I see. I’m just clear eyed about the game plan.

Re: Reddit Doubles Down

#280
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Reddit was telling the truth either. But AI developers/companies seem to almost universally believe they have fair-use rights to train their models on any data they can get their hands on, and a sufficiently expensive API at least forces them to do engineering work to get all the data. So at the time I believed Reddit's reasoning.

Pushshift was the best unofficial reddit API for years, and did so without any funding problems

I'm talking about deterring ML data harvesting, or at least getting a better price for it.
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