Dating, education, and sex ratios • Hacker News Board

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#221

Post by lostmsu » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #216

timeagain wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true I might be biased by hanging with women who hang with gay men. It is also true that women perpetuate these dumb stereotypes of masculinity as well. The kicker for me is how these dynamics ruin the ability for men and women to become friends. Like you say, these wouldn’t be issues in a platonic relationship. But this cloud of expectation looms over any straight-platonic friendship between men and women. Ho…

Straight folk have lots to learn from gay folk. Probably starting with how to do marriage right[0]. [0] https://www.advocate.com/people/2020/2/13/study-gay-people-h...

The study can not be accessed without payment, but if they did not correctly control for kids, it is useless.

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#222

Post by dahwolf » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:03 PM UTC

timeagain wrote: post #206

friend_and_foe wrote: post #161

All the data is good, but the way it is framed is a bit misleading. First, lets get one thing straight: dysfunction in the dating world negatively affects both men and women. So framing it as "men floundering, women most affected" is disingenuous. What is it about the prospects a man has that he has no desire to become desirable? If men's lives are less rewarding wouldn't it be them, not the women, that are the most…

> So framing it as "men floundering, women most affected" is disingenuous. My 2c as a gay man that has many women as friends. They aren’t looking for “status” they are looking for someone who is emotionally intelligent. And thinking that gaining status is how to gain women is pretty much the opposite of that. Patriarchy hurts both sexes. By thinking of status and power as avenues to sex you stunt your ability to conn…

"They aren’t looking for “status” they are looking for someone who is emotionally intelligent."

False. A lowly educated low earner male that is emotionally intelligent will not get selected. Every dating/marriage statistic confirms that women refuse to marry down. So they want both status/wealth and emotional intelligence.

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#223

Post by imtringued » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:04 PM UTC

This makes me wonder if Karl Marx‘ analysis of Capitalism is all wrong and not because of economic reasons but rather because men feel compelled to climb the hierarchy, even if it means turning into "exploitative capitalists", to impress women.

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#224

Post by dahwolf » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:05 PM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #214

timeagain wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So framing it as "men floundering, women most affected" is disingenuous. My 2c as a gay man that has many women as friends. They aren’t looking for “status” they are looking for someone who is emotionally intelligent. And thinking that gaining status is how to gain women is pretty much the opposite of that. Patriarchy hurts both sexes. By thinking of status and power as avenues to sex you stunt your ability to conn…

> They aren’t looking for “status” they are looking for someone who is emotionally intelligent. That’s what they say , and that’s what women’s magazines have told them. Reality is the opposite, and has been demonstrated over and over both a scientifically and informally. Or to put it another way: the reason even the hottest 1% of women complain about men’s poor EQ is because they’re not optimising for it when choosin…

Not to mention that emotionally intelligent is somewhat of an insulting term. Men and women deal with and express emotions in radically different ways, that doesn't make one way more mature or intelligent.

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#225

Post by ayemel » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:06 PM UTC

almostnormal wrote: post #219

> A study led by economics researcher Brecht Neyt of Ghent University found that, on Tinder, women were 91 percent more likely to “like” a man with a master's degree compared with a bachelor's degree. The researchers used the same male profiles, the only difference was level of education. No ethics board in the economics department?

I’ll bite, what’s unethical here?

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#226

Post by scarmig » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:09 PM UTC

lostmsu wrote: post #221

scarmig wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straight folk have lots to learn from gay folk. Probably starting with how to do marriage right[0]. [0] https://www.advocate.com/people/2020/2/13/study-gay-people-h...

The study can not be accessed without payment, but if they did not correctly control for kids, it is useless.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6731029/

> Covariates. We control for covariates that are likely associated with both psychological distress and marital strain including respondent age, education, and employment status (Mirowsky & Ross, 2003), spouse health status (Kiecolt-Glaser & Wilson, 2017), relationship duration (Proulx et al., 2007), and children in household (Mirowsky & Schieman, 2008).

So at least they attempted to account for obvious covariates.

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#227

Post by imtringued » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:09 PM UTC

monksy wrote: post #179

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not hard to find "Why is my boyfriend/husband so cheap?" as a recurring question in advice columns. There's definitely a sense among many women that men should be demonstrably spendy - even flamboyant. Presumably because it confers competitive status. I used to have a friend who used to do factory work. She said that whenever any of the women had a new boyfriend one of the first questions was always "What kind o…

[flagged]

Or "Give me love and money"

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#228

Post by dahwolf » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

sho_hn wrote: post #73

rngname22 wrote: post #64

Conversations about high income as a factor in attracting women often seem to neglect to mention that it's not enough to have a high income if you don't use it to signal wealth or to provide luxury experiences to women. Telling women you want to put your high income to work in enabling you to retire early but live a modest life and use that freedom to pursue creative pursuits doesn't have the same effect as taking th…

This doesn't match my experience at all. In my experience, in most adult heterosexual long-term relationships it's usually the female partner who is insisting on long-term planning, financial planning, avoiding frivolous purchases, etc. and are happy if men don't start conflicts over this. Your exaggerated example basically screams "husband material".

Women are the largest spenders by far, the ultimate consumers.

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#229

Post by monksy » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:16 PM UTC

timeagain wrote: post #212

scarmig wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a bi man, the dynamics of dating men and women are very different. It ranges from the very explicit (you must plan the date; you must pay for the date) to the comparatively subtle (you must be emotionally stoic and not show too much vulnerability; you must have a stable, well-paying job; you must be "confident"). These things aren't standards you would be subject to in a purely platonic relationship. It's not even…

That’s true I might be biased by hanging with women who hang with gay men. It is also true that women perpetuate these dumb stereotypes of masculinity as well. The kicker for me is how these dynamics ruin the ability for men and women to become friends. Like you say, these wouldn’t be issues in a platonic relationship. But this cloud of expectation looms over any straight-platonic friendship between men and women. Ho…

> It is also true that women perpetuate these dumb stereotypes of masculinity as well.

The ones who are complaining that men lack emotional maturity or inteligence are the same ones that will post on 2xc and say: "Am I a bad person for dumping a guy because I saw him crying and I'm no longer attracted to him?"

Re: Dating, education, and sex ratios

#230

Post by akomtu » Tue, Jun 13, 2023, 10:18 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #52

I read a book awhile ago called Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth? , which basically argues that cultures which strongly promote traditional values, having children, etc. will evolutionarily outcompete groups that don’t. It made me think that there must be a kind of cycle in human societies, where certain social values (like the ones mentioned in the article) are able to become popular for a short period of time…

Hinduist "four ugas" capture this idea very well: the golden age when strong and good create values, the silver age when weak and good uphold the values, the bronze age when weak with sloppy morals let the values decline, the iron age when strong and evil destroy the values.

I doubt that the current situation with marriage institute is seen as a problem by those in power. As we're progressing towards the iron age, the culture of indiscriminate hookups will prevail and will be celebrated by governments, the only motive of short connections will be greed and lust, and the kids, occasionally born from such encounters will be raised in the gov kindergartens. And people will worship AI that, among other things, will match pairs on the dating market.