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Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#971

Post by whimsicalism »

carimura wrote: post #952
whimsicalism wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did people start conflating people disagreeing vehemently with them and censorship/suppression? I've been called a moron for saying that I don't think the evidence is fully there yet for lab leak, does that make me a victim of a counter-censorship? It's nonsense.

I can't speak for "people", but I can speak for myself as the grandparent comment, and I take no issue with disagreement. It's how the disagreement is expressed. Using words like "conspiracy theory" and "disinformation" are the keywords to justify censorship/suppression (see Hunter Biden laptop. See lab-leak theory).

No excuse for the Hunter Biden thing, but lab-leak theory has been covered quite extensively in the media & discussed all over the place since the start and hard for me to really see ivermectin stuff in any light other than conspiracy theory, you are theorizing that there is some very effective drug against Covid that others are 'conspiring' to prevent you from having.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#972

Post by boston_clone »

gmarx wrote: post #846
boston_clone wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A scientific consensus is significantly different than media opinion. Second, there is no "debate" regarding efficacy of masks and limiting exposure via quarantining. Masking reduces the likelihood of contracting SARS from others, and staying home reduces the spread to others and strain on hospitals. Unsurprisingly, the people attempting to debate this typically had no medical background whatsoever. Millions died in…

I have a medical background and when the pandemic started I did a literature to see if masks had helped with other respiratory virus epidemics (as masking had been common for years in many Asian countries ). the results were decidedly unimpressive and I concluded masks might to something but it was not a big effect at a societal level. The mistake that many smart people without medical backgrounds make is assuming th…

Please share your background so we can more accurately asses your credibility; saying that masks are ineffective is, at this point, painfully ignorant.

The nurses who thought so are either fired, dead, or updated their thinking.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#973

Post by boston_clone »

naasking wrote: post #968
boston_clone wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You mean those centuries before we truly recognized individual rights? I'm not sure what this means. Individual rights have been recognized long before the founding of the United States, though. > Inform the public and let them personally assess the level of risk they're willing to accept. This is impossible and irresponsible when you cannot accurately assess the risk. The question of a draft is so unrelated I'm in…

> Individual rights have been recognized long before the founding of the United States, though. Yes, and? Is it not true that we have progressively recognized more rights over time, often at the cost of blood? That our "rulers" do not and should not have de facto power over our lives to impede our movements, that they should not have power over what we choose to believe or decide with whom we may associate? Furthermo…

Editing to remove my comment; I’m done arguing with narrow-minded libertarians about effective government. It’s like arguing with a carnivore about why they should eat vegetables.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#974

Post by startupsfail »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #966
startupsfail wrote: post #890

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is certain amount of justice present in China. They can do it internally. It’s not like they haven’t suffered internally from it.

The citizens of China have suffered, but that doesn't really matter to the CCP. Covid has been great for strengthening their central government and all of the technology tools of suppression.

I think you’ve been watching too much western propaganda. Nothing is as black and white and China is a complex country.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#975

Post by mensetmanusman »

startupsfail wrote: post #974
mensetmanusman wrote: post #966

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The citizens of China have suffered, but that doesn't really matter to the CCP. Covid has been great for strengthening their central government and all of the technology tools of suppression.

I think you’ve been watching too much western propaganda. Nothing is as black and white and China is a complex country.

Sure, but what are your thoughts on the Covid drones of Shanghai:

"The drone's female voice also tells listeners, "Control your soul's thirst for freedom. Do not open your windows and sing.""

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#976

Post by startupsfail »

antonvs wrote: post #393
startupsfail wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the lab be sued out of existence for damages? It is quite clear that they did amplification research as they’ve planned. And had inserted the furin site into the coronavirus . And they’ve mismanaged the research and they’ve let the virus to spread. This had caused a lot of damage, in particular the deaths, economical damage, long-covid damages, mental illnesses and diminished IQ (covid brain fog). There’ve been s…

> And had inserted the furin site into the coronavirus A claim was made about that, but it’s far from settled. One could argue it has been debunked. See “SARS-CoV-2 furin cleavage site was not engineered”: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2211107119 > And they’ve mismanaged the research and they’ve let the virus to spread. That’s speculation. Irresponsible speculation, in fact, which has been pushed by people wh…

There is a lab that had planned and did the research. This is well documented. The virus spread had started nearby. There is nothing else that you need to know.

There is evidence that the Chinese authorities were suppressing information about the leak (information about that virus had leaked accidentally, by an ophthalmologist that saw cases spreading in his hospital).

Yes, it is not clear exactly, how the furin site got there. Was it a long series of mutations and a recombination with another virus in a lab animal? Was it spliced? We’ll never know, unless the scientists responsible would decide to tell how it had happened.

But I’m not particularly emotional about that virus. If you read the above, you’ll see that I see positive and negative after effects. Viruses and mistakes happen.

But it’d be a good idea to make a point and get rid of that lab. Failures like that should not be rewarded with continual existence.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#977

Post by deanCommie »

bondarchuk wrote: post #915
deanCommie wrote: post #819

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about what you believe, it's WHY do you believe it. It's better to start with logic, reason, and scientific evidence - not with guesses, fear, or conspiracy theories. Sometimes the conspiracy theories are true!! The US government DID test mind control and psychadelic drugs on people. They DID forcibly sterilize thousands of african americans. But was 9/11 an inside job? Doesn't seem like it. Don't forget, mo…

> Don't forget, most of the same people screaming Lab Leak were later screaming Horse Worm Medicine. So what? You just said we should only look at "logic, reason, and scientific evidence". What some of the same people are screaming shouldn't be a factor at all, by your own reasoning.

Right....and we did.

At the beginning they were screaming Lab Leak, and the rest of us looked at the evidence and said "Well, yes, that's certainly suspicious and should be investigated. But we don't have evidence for it yet, so the reasonable thing to do would be to wait and see." And the Lab Leakers screamed "NO, it was CHINA, don't you see? We need to put tariffs on them!". And we said "uh huh. OK. Yes, your certainty that it's China doesn't make it more logical."

And then later, when new evidence came in we said "Huh. OK. Well that's interesting. That's definitely more likely now. OK"

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#978

Post by stef25 »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #768
stef25 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1 of my aunts - an RN - is getting reinstated after 2 years because she was fired for telling people "the jab will kill you". This was after she tried to convince my other aunt - another RN - that she should not get the vaccine while being in a risk category It's crazy how many nurses don't trust science and news reports. Here in Belgium it was a big problem too. So many of them seem to be very cynical about and ha…

They do get to see how the sausage is made. Are you sure that the reality around patient drug experiences is so positive? Is it more likely that such nurses are completely delusional, or that they have information or experience that you or I don’t? Keep in mind that everyone in medicine has a financial and career incentive which points towards aligning with and advocating for the system they are so invested in, so th…

> They do get to see how the sausage is made

Not sure what sausage they see being made. They're trained to evaluate patients, carry out emergency procedures, take measurements and administer medicine as instructed by a doctor. It's a hell of a job, hard, stressful, thankless and underpaid. But that's irrelevant.

> Are you sure that the reality around patient drug experiences is so positive?

Well yes, by definition. Generally, and simply put, a drug can't enter the market unless it's better than the current standard treatment.

Hundred years ago a simple infection could kill you, or result in a limb being amputated sans anesthesia. The difference between then and now is the work of research and pharma companies.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#979

Post by stef25 »

stcroixx wrote: post #936
stef25 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1 of my aunts - an RN - is getting reinstated after 2 years because she was fired for telling people "the jab will kill you". This was after she tried to convince my other aunt - another RN - that she should not get the vaccine while being in a risk category It's crazy how many nurses don't trust science and news reports. Here in Belgium it was a big problem too. So many of them seem to be very cynical about and ha…

Nobody should be trusting news reports anymore. I worked in pharma for a few years on clinical trial systems. What I learned of the dishonesty in the industry made me decide to only take anything they produce if it’s an extreme emergency and I have no other choice. The FDA is a revolving door of pharma execs with financial incentives so they can’t be trusted either.

> I worked in pharma for a few years on clinical trial systems

Same here. What did you see that didn't make you lose trust?

What I saw if anything was the rigorous work required to get a drug on the market. FDA inspections were feared because if you've made mistakes in your trial everything risks going to the trash.

> to only take anything they produce if it’s an extreme emergency

How high would you toddler's fever or painful your tooth ache have to be for it to be an extreme emergency, before you administer some paracetamol? What about anxiety? What about illnesses your ageing parents may have? There's a very large gap between comfort and near-death.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#980

Post by revelio »

whimsicalism wrote: post #948
revelio wrote: post #909

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Sunday Times isn't a tabloid!

I did not realize The Times (a tabloid) and The Sunday Times (broadsheet, but still...)

The Times isn't a tabloid either, jesus christ. Have you ever actually lived in the UK? It feels like you're just making things up to try and muddy the waters here, in the hope of making all this stuff go away.

To assist: The Times was founded in the 1700s and was the first newspaper in the world to use that name, a name that has been copied many times due to its reputation. In 2004 they switched to a compact paper form of the size used by tabloid papers, but that didn't affect the content or style and didn't make it a "tabloid paper" in the sense you're trying to use here.

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