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Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#951

Post by carimura »

Manjuuu wrote: post #643
carimura wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that right there is how you promulgate a social suppression campaign.

No, that right there is how I remind you that if you want your hypothesis to be taken seriously you need proofs or at least a very compelling argument. There was neither.

Well it's not my hypothesis, it's a hypothesis of which the Director of National Intelligence in the United States during the pandemic, the executive head of our intelligence community, stated to congress under oath:

"My informed assessment, as a person with as much or more access than anyone to our government’s intelligence during the initial year of the virus outbreak and pandemic onset, has been and continues to be that a lab leak is the only explanation credibly supported by our intelligence, by science and by common sense."

Say what you will about politics and intentions, my statement holds that joining the group that calls people "crazy" and "conspiracy losers" is not a form of healthy discussion, in fact, is a form of propaganda itself.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#952

Post by carimura »

whimsicalism wrote: post #705
carimura wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and that right there is how you promulgate a social suppression campaign.

When did people start conflating people disagreeing vehemently with them and censorship/suppression? I've been called a moron for saying that I don't think the evidence is fully there yet for lab leak, does that make me a victim of a counter-censorship? It's nonsense.

I can't speak for "people", but I can speak for myself as the grandparent comment, and I take no issue with disagreement. It's how the disagreement is expressed. Using words like "conspiracy theory" and "disinformation" are the keywords to justify censorship/suppression (see Hunter Biden laptop. See lab-leak theory).

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#953

Post by ajross »

Etherlord87 wrote: post #817
ajross wrote: post #801

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an intuition based on a lifetime of watching dumb bureaucrats try to hide stuff and failing. But your logic is symmetric: where are all the successfully hidden conspiracies then? Obviously your response will be "we don't know by definition because they're hidden", which sorta makes your point non-falsifiable, doesn't it? I'll put my money on bureaucrats being dumb over globalist nation state super autocracy ever…

His point would be non-falsifiable if he claimed to the opposite of your claim. He didn't. What he claims is the logic flaw of yours and argues deductively.

And I repeat, that logic is specious because it works both ways. The same unfounded assertion (that there are conspiracies we can't know about) wrecks the math "deductively" in both directions.

I don't think it's very much a stretch to believe that pervasive observations of bureaucracies leaking and making mistakes serves as evidence that genuinely true Hidden Conspiracies are vanishingly rare. But you do you.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#954

Post by cygx »

baja_blast wrote: post #866
cygx wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I'm aware, we still do not know the first intermediate species of SARS-1 (cf Wikipedia: "Infected palm civets at the market were traced to farms where no infected animals were found. It is unknown whether the virus was originally introduced to the market by civets, humans, or another animal." and "Phylogenetic analysis of these viruses indicated a high probability that SARS coronavirus originated in bats an…

The palm civet found infected in the market was infected with a virus 99.9% similar but unique to palm civets. The issue here is they have found animals infected with an ancestral strain at a market that's a 29-nucleotide difference. SARS2 none of this has been found, which stands in stark contrast to all previous coronavirus spillovers. And the fact the virus not only was extremely well adapted towards humans, but a…

> SARS2 none of this has been found, which stands in stark contrast to all previous coronavirus spillovers.

Do we have that for HCoV-HKU1?

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#955

Post by P_I_Staker »

realjhol wrote: post #517

It's going to take a long time before the mainstream is ready to think critically about the COVID narratives, but it's good to see first steps toward the recovery of rationality. But there's still a lot to cover: - Lockdowns did little to prevent the spread of COVID and lead to increased deaths by other causes, egregious violation of people's fundamental rights, massively destruction of the economy, and many people's…

I don't agree with you

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#956

Post by cheaprentalyeti »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #736
bruce511 wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't say which country is "this country" - but from the context I'm assuming China? And sure if it was created in a lab then that opens the door to lots of political questions. But the source of the virus remains less important to the folk that died from it. They're no less dead because it escaped from a lab than if it came from a wet market. Responses in every country were different. Which ones were the right o…

I think OP meant the US. Anthony Fauci was one of the main individuals in the government responsible for sponsoring gain of function research, including funding some of it at the Wuhan institute. It was incredibly odd that a virologist with no public health background (and a very questionable role in past HIV policy) effectively commandeered the CDC's job here, but it makes sense if you think about it as a " cover my…

I should have checked in on this thread yesterday, but yes, I meant the US.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#958

Post by George83728 »

oilchange wrote: post #875
jcranmer wrote: post #743

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your attempts at "gotchas" here are unpersuasive. If the point of treaties is to be broken, why bother signing up to them in the first place? Perhaps more interestingly, why would a country sign up to some treaties banning weapons but not others, if its intent were to use all those weapons? Yes, countries can break treaties. But there is a real cost to doing so. The point of treaties (especially the anti-war treaties…

> Your attempts at "gotchas" here are unpersuasive. It's not gotchas. It's just history and reasoning. Logic. It's persuasive to people who are willing to think. But no amount of reason will convince someone with an agenda. > If the point of treaties is to be broken, why bother signing up to them in the first place? As your buddy godelski pointed out, governments do things for optics, political grandstanding, etc. Wh…

> Also, the Washington Naval Treaty was a complete failure? It set the stage for japan to build more resentment which led to ww2.

1. Attributing the whole of Japan's imperial ambition to the Washington Naval Treaty is farcical.

2. This chart of battleship displacement by date of construction plainly reveals that the Washington Navy Treaty was a massive success. Yes, treaty-breaking ships were constructed, but you cannot look at this graph and conclude that the treaty did not succeed in substantially disrupting the arms escalation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty#/media...

FWIW, I agree with you that the development and research into chemical and biological weapons never stopped. However it is likely that most countries no longer maintain up-to-date stockpiles of these weapons. Research continues for game theory reasons, but the treaties (and moreover the general public sentiment against such weapons, particularly the sentiment that use of those weapons would constitute the use of "WMDs" to which a nuclear response would be warranted) had the effect of greatly reducing the risk that such weapons would be used en masse. To this point; these sort of weapons have not yet been used in Russia's invasion of Ukraine, despite most late-cold war analysts believing that the Soviet Union would use chemical weapons during their anticipated war with NATO.

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#959

Post by boston_clone »

P_I_Staker wrote: post #922
boston_clone wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't try and have other people do your research for easily answered questions. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3559034/

I have downvoted your comment

Seems like you may be unfamiliar with the guidelines here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Inside the Wuhan lab weeks before Covid

#960

Post by boston_clone »

anthonypasq wrote: post #932
boston_clone wrote: post #777

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About a year after vaccines became available, only 60% or so of folks had received two doses [0]. Public messaging from the initial administration is an obvious contributor to the remaining 40%. County / MSA hospital capacities, percent available ICU beds, ventilator use, admission increase rates, deaths, and various other stats were factored into restrictive policy decisions. However, this varies city by city and st…

im sorry, but people who chose not to get vaccinated knew what they were doing and governments and public health officials holding everyone else hostage cause some people wanted to engage in risky behavior is not justifiable under any ethical framework i can think of.

“im sorry, but people who chose not to [follow the speed limit] knew what they were doing and governments and public safety officials holding everyone else to a [speed limit] cause some people wanted to engage is risky behavior is not justifiable under any ethical framework i can think of.

do you see how ridiculous this sounds?

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