Live data from Hacker News

BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

apps.apple.com

141–150 of 177 posts

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#141

BareBones has had several good programs to go along with BBEdit. Yojimbo is a kind of catch-all database where you can cram stuff and organize it. Kind of like a Pinterest for all kinds of things, not just images. With the family pack, everybody can have access to the same lump-o-stuff. Way back in the day, they had Mailsmith, which was, more or less, a POP mail client with BBEdit crammed in. (This was back when pret…

I like Yojimbo on Mac, but for the life of me I can't figure out why their iPad app is read only still. I understood it when it first came out, but they added all kinds of features on the Mac version, such as iCloud sync, but the iPad app still only syncs via local network only, and it can't edit anything, and doesn't take advantage of things like web views.

Weirdly behind feature set still

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#142
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL kind of the same story as mind. 1. I want to change the highlight colour. It is too dim to recognize. People in the forum asked: hey I don't want hidden settings. Can you make the highlight colour adjustable? A: No. We won't do it. [1] [1] : https://groups.google.com/g/bbedit/c/yz_StJa9HVA 2. I forgot if it is the print function or what, it just don't have despite in the year of 2022. Oh wait maybe that is the fu…

If it’s export to pdf I’d think simply being on Mac solves that assuming it has print functionality. Is the issue the print functionality in MacOS can’t handle files as big as BBEdit can making using that sometimes impossible? Or maybe it is actually a lack of print functionality and you’re remembering export to pdf cause it came up in that conversation? I would test myself but I don’t have the app installed right no…

It does indeed have working print functionality. As you say, it's on macOS and so this automatically means it has PDF export.

I'll admit I've never used said print functionality, so I can't rule out that it's missing something that some people consider important.

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#143

UltraEdit I never understood why there was so much love for BBEdit on Mac and so little love for UltraEdit on Windows. They were both released around the same time, selling to the same audience just on different platforms. This was also during a time where there was many options.

UltraEdit is on the Mac now. It's not as polished as the Windows version but it is good and you get UltraCompare with it as well.

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#144

BareBones has had several good programs to go along with BBEdit. Yojimbo is a kind of catch-all database where you can cram stuff and organize it. Kind of like a Pinterest for all kinds of things, not just images. With the family pack, everybody can have access to the same lump-o-stuff. Way back in the day, they had Mailsmith, which was, more or less, a POP mail client with BBEdit crammed in. (This was back when pret…

I really wish they or someone would turn Yojimbo into a scientific papers PDF organizer/reader, or at least have some support for this. Papers was good but got bloated and the standalone is not supported anymore

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#146
I pretty much stopped using bbedit when moving over to osx from system9. It had the ability to run emacs (there were some emacs ports for pre osx mac, but they all annoyed me in one way or another) and that was a nice return 'home' for me. I remember having to work on a project on a windows machine in the early aughts that drove me nut until someone handed me notepad++ and called it 'bbedit for windows'.

That all said, nice of apple to write a little puff piece about it and it's author. BBedit was a workhorse for many and continues to be for many. It's one of the few very successful mac apps that apple didn't just steal (like watson).

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Henry Ford quote is based on the premise that most people lack the technical knowledge and problem understanding needed to develop visionary solutions, and would just try to give you what they think is best for you (a faster horse, a cleaner car, a fancy new dependency, etc).

The Henry Ford quote is both dumb and extremely misapplied. It basically tells you that a successful, category-defining mass market product, does not look like what you'd get if you imagined asking a bunch of friends a quick question and took their imagined ad-hoc answers at face value. I say imagined, because any actual horse owner would tell Ford they don't want a faster horse - they want a horse that's stronger, e…

I’ve had non-technical users, who used the application daily, ask me to implement a large form where every input was a radio button.

When I suggested using a more appropriate mix of drop-downs, checkboxes and radio buttons they readily accepted.

It turns out they thought radio buttons would be easier for me to implement. They aren’t stupid people, they just don’t have any idea of how things work outside their domain.

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#148
post #13

FTA: "We’ve always had the utmost respect for the user. Every internal decision about look and function answers the questions 'What does the customer need?' and 'How can we help them be more productive?' (Not 'How can we give them what they’re asking for?' because that isn’t the right question to answer.)" I experienced this first hand when asking Rich to restore the "hard wrap to window width" feature in TextWrangle…

> (Not 'How can we give them what they’re asking for?' because that isn’t the right question to answer.)

We say some very similar variant of this where I currently work, and also at previous places. Personally, I've never been able to understand this in any other way than:

a.) our users are idiots, we developers know much better then those poor souls

b.) our users are idiots, adding a feature without taking away a marginally-similar feature would be so confusing for them, poor souls

And I think it's why BBEdit gets this historical puff piece that reads like an in-flight magazine piece congratulating Madonna on still being able to dance at this late stage of her career.

I used BBEdit 1.0, and probably every version after that -- including the OpenDoc component[1] version!! -- but I finally stopped paying for it after version 13, after realizing I only ever used it for dealing with my Japanese bank's legacy-encoding CSV files. (Which I still do, to be fair, but the free version works for this.)

I don't think BBEdit has maintained legitimate relevance, in terms of writing most kinds of code, or even more complex text-processing workflows (for which it is better-suited relative to coding), and IMHO that's basically because of this attitude of "our users are dumb! we must protect them, poor little lambs!"

For instance, despite having had rectangular selection quite early, when it was rare (20 years ago? memories get hazy...), I don't think they ever made the jump to Sublime-style multiple cursors and discontiguous selections/insertion-points (later made 9 quintillion times more popular by VS Code) -- arguably the most significant advance in text editors since the introduction of multiple windows.

Likewise language servers and basically everything since 2013 or so.

I might be wrong, though; I look at text editors from the writer-of-software perspective, mainly. TFA references people using BBEdit to write English, and as that endeavor has gotten more complicated ("just write it in Markdown" somebody once said to my father, and he threw a spiny squash at their head) maybe BBEdit's niche has shifted. I don't think it is relevant today as a source code editor, but maybe as a blog post editor, or applied statistics prompt editor, etc?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDoc

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#149
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Turns out that the strategy of saying something false in order to get the right answer works even better when the false statement comes from an LLM. I guess I'll keep that in mind.

Please also keep in mind that if the corrections fail to materialize, posting false information will have polluted the knowledge pool for no benefit.

Re: BBEdit: Where Respect Is Due

#150
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're reading this the wrong way, there's (literally!) decades of scientific literature about it, and it's not a problem of being condescending. For a gentle non-scientific introduction: https://www.forbes.com/sites/leoyeykelis/2018/05/10/why-its-... If you actually want to know more, a very accessible textbook: https://books.google.nl/books/about/Interaction_Design.html?...

Could you me just a tad more specific instead of sciencing around? For example, I've read your article and its argument is simply not relevant > Good UX research, however, does not ask people what they want. That’s because people find it difficult to put themselves in imaginary situations, especially in cases where they need to picture a future with products and technology that do not currently exist. But this is a t…

I cannot give you a specific example in this case, because I don’t know the feature, use case and problem… which is kinda the issue at hand. But the claim that “users are familiar with other apps, we should give them the exactly same features if they ask for it” is not very sound: first of all, not all users will be familiar with other editors. Those familiar might have had a very hard time learning them at first. And, in general, it’s good to ask “why do you want that? Show me how you use it and why you think it’s important, and we can test multiple design alternatives until we found something that works for you”, instead of “let me add feature X from editor Y” (both because there would be no innovation, but also no reason to change editors).

For the article, the relevant part was: “ In general, a researcher will first ask a customer to walk through how they currently solve a particular problem. As part of this investigation, they will probe at the user’s pain points and existing workarounds”. What is the hard wrapping used for? Maybe there’s a better way of solving the same problem to begin with, and hard wrapping is just a band-aid instead of the proper solution to the underlying goal?

By the way, UX research doesn’t claim that designers cannot get anything wrong or that users can never get anything’s right - that’s a silly simplification of course. But I don’t think the the BBEdit author was trying to promote such an absolutist view.

Post reply on HN