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A developer's view of Vision Pro

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Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#241

Post by mellosouls »

sergiotapia wrote: post #179

I still haven't read one single account of a developer actually using it to write code in VSCode/Vim/Emacs. I need to know if the screens looks crisp and are actually a good replacement for a screen for work. I don't mean "powerpoint/drawing" work. I mean wall of text, code work.

I still haven't read one single account of a developer actually using it to write code in VSCode/Vim/Emacs

That's because it hasn't been released yet. All the accounts you are reading are strictly controlled and time-limited demos.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#242

Post by ethbr0 »

bamfly wrote: post #145
goosedragons wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because with the exception of very few tasks like digital art the limitations placed on iOS make it worse. Some tasks are just straight up impossible (e.g compiling code), others are just hampered by things like file management and sandboxing or lack of support for hardware/accessories. Sometimes they can be worked around but often it's an exercise in frustration to do something that would be brain-dead on a desktop…

All I can figure is difference in perspective is because such a large part of the potential of i-devices (or phones and tablets more broadly) for creation involves using them as a tool to get something done in the real world, and/or for the kinds of creative tasks that get overlooked by the hackerspace crowd (running an Instagram, say, involves lots of creation ; tradespeople and home DIYers routinely use phones and…

iOS shines when you create something, for while someone has already created software to create.

Desktop shines when you create something novel.

It's as simple as that -- there are tons of things people have created really polished iOS "happy path" software to create on, but they're not general purpose creators.

Specifically because anything general purpose threatens Apple's App Store toll gate, and thus cannot be allowed to exist.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#243

Post by bamfly »

madeofpalk wrote: post #228
bamfly wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because it seems to be another Apple device separating producers and consumers just like iPad and iPhone. The persistent framing of i-devices this way on HN, after all these years, is baffling to me. Tons of creation happens on them, or using them as a tool in service of creation, much of which would be harder or impossible with traditional computer. Just not a lot of software creation.

The Mac is a "real computer" because it can be used to create new types of software and platforms, such as the Vision Pro. iPad is not because it cannot be used to create the Vision Pro. It may still have advantages where it's better for some uses cases, but it still doesn't make it a general purpose computing device in the same way that a TV is better for watching videos than a Macbook, but a TV is not a "real compu…

They're not great for making software. That doesn't mean they're not a decent-to-great tool for a whole bunch of productive or creative activities, often in ways that a "real computer" cannot be reasonably used as a substitute—that is, if they vanished tomorrow, in many roles they wouldn't be replaced by a laptop, but by paper, a stack of single-purpose tools, and more human running-about or time-wasting.

I think the real/not-real computer thing's not especially illuminating, but I don't take issue with it the same way I do dismissing phones and tablets as "consumption-only", a perspective I find simply baffling, because I see them used for creation and productive purposes all the time in a ton of contexts by ordinary people.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#244

Post by remich »

animatethrow wrote: post #112
ladberg wrote: post #20

> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences. I left Apple 1.5 years ago but was working on the Vision Pro while I was there. I have spend many hours working in the headset and I know exactly the feeling he's describing! Leaving felt like going back in time to using clunky technology and I've been waiting for outside world t…

> I've been trying to explain to people how certain I am that doing work in headsets will become mainstream but am (understandably) met with doubt Tech enthusiasts underestimate how much the general public hates having gear strapped to their faces and over their hair, especially more than half of women who put considerable effort into their face makeup and hair.

This raises an interesting use-case, though, which is the idea of a person who is working remotely or otherwise engaging virtually could rely on the 3D-model version of them, generated when they were professionally attired, to avoid having to go through that whole rigamarole every day.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#245

Post by ladberg »

abracadaniel wrote: post #212
ladberg wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used other VR headsets and it's significantly better than everything I've tried. You'll be able to put up virtual monitors at the same density as real life and read stuff fine, I couldn't really discern pixels at all. Reading physical monitors through passthrough is a bit harder (I increased text size a few points when I needed to do this) but isn't really something you'd do for actual work.

Is is comfortable for all day work like that? Virtual monitors seems like the critical app for me.

It's more comfortable than other VR headsets I've tried, but still something strapped to your head that's significantly heavier than a pair of glasses. I think I could spend all day in it with no issues but I'm not sure how sick of it I'd get doing that 5x a week, every week.

I'm sure as soon as it's released people will be doing that and reporting back though!

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#246

Post by bilsbie »

We’re still constrained to 2d rectangles though.

I wonder how we could code in three dimensions or make it feel more physical like wood working somehow.

It’s all text based so I can’t really think of how you’d do it.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#247

Post by zmmmmm »

> When I sat down to write this article I was having trouble context shifting back from WWDC mode and wished that I could have gone up to a virtual cabin in the woods, opened a text editor and written it there

I do this all the time with the Quest Pro. It's resolution isn't quite there but in most other respects it enables the same type of transportation out of current context to somewhere else. Given you can get these now for 1/4 the cost of a Vision Pro, I think dev interested in Vision Pro should pick up a Quest Pro now and then you have both ecosystems to play with / compare and ultimately, if you are building something where it works, ship it on both.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#248

Post by ladberg »

no_wizard wrote: post #216
ladberg wrote: post #20

> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences. I left Apple 1.5 years ago but was working on the Vision Pro while I was there. I have spend many hours working in the headset and I know exactly the feeling he's describing! Leaving felt like going back in time to using clunky technology and I've been waiting for outside world t…

would you recommend buying 2 and replacing your TVs with it? I'm legit thinking about this, because the home theater setup I'm looking at will cost nearly the same, but two of these + a great audio system would be amazing. The real question is, can you make two devices sync to each other simultaneously. Probably not I'm imagining

The problem is that it puts a hard cap on how many people can enjoy your home theater, so that might be an issue. If you already have a space carved out for a home theater and were thinking of entertaining >2 people then I'm not entirely sure what the value add of the headset would be. In my opinion the benefit comes in getting a home-theater-like experience that you can bring anywhere and not have to dedicate space in your home for.

Third party developers will definitely be capable of adding a sync feature like you're describing but I have no clue if they will.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#249

Post by zmmmmm »

animatethrow wrote: post #112
ladberg wrote: post #20

> In short, my brain has crossed a Rubicon and now feels like experiences constrained to small, rectangular screens are lesser experiences. I left Apple 1.5 years ago but was working on the Vision Pro while I was there. I have spend many hours working in the headset and I know exactly the feeling he's describing! Leaving felt like going back in time to using clunky technology and I've been waiting for outside world t…

> I've been trying to explain to people how certain I am that doing work in headsets will become mainstream but am (understandably) met with doubt Tech enthusiasts underestimate how much the general public hates having gear strapped to their faces and over their hair, especially more than half of women who put considerable effort into their face makeup and hair.

I think it's one of the things they got right with the Quest Pro. It doesn't touch your face and is carefully designed so that all the support is via the forehead. It causes discomfort for some people but the upside is you put it on and off and it doesn't disturb your face or hair.

Re: A developer's view of Vision Pro

#250

Post by ladberg »

fudged71 wrote: post #217
ladberg wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For reference I was already pretty used to gaming in VR on inferior headsets before working on the Vision Pro, so I might be more forgiving of issues than your average person. I'd say that eye strain wasn't really an issue at all for me. When you take off the headset after a while inside of it you kinda get a jarring transition back to normal vision instead of passthrough, but passthrough doesn't have any noticeable…

I have ADHD and can definitely say that I experience "time blindness" with technology, and being on the internet. I'm not sure how common this is for neurotypicals with VR headsets. With Vision Pro have you experienced losing track of time? Or does the AR passthrough seem to help with this?

I have experienced what you're describing while gaming on my personal VR headset, but never with Vision Pro.

I'm not sure if that's due to the passthrough or the fact that I was only ever using it to actively do work (and I usually mean work on stuff for the Vision Pro itself, not just "normal" dev work).

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