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It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

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Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#131

Post by standardUser »

8note wrote: post #88
standardUser wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is saying that, unless you think drugs materialize out of thin air? Because in reality, a drug user, drug seller and drug producer are all part of the exact same system, completely inseparable and entirely co-dependent on one another. Any differentiation we make is a fantasy we have devised to make ourselves feel better, like we're going after the "real" criminal, not the poor victim/user. The only way to st…

Decriminalization is the thing you're looking for -- making people free to sell whatever drugs they want, rather than something like legalizing, which keeps the black markets intact

"Decriminalization is the thing you're looking for "

That is not even remotely close to what I am looking for. No substance that is widely consumed by people should be produced or sold without comprehensive - if not excessive - formal processes to ensure purity.

Black markets only exists because states enable them. We have unlimited evidence that, when you allow people to produce and sell products and make a profit, even with significant regulations and enforcement, they will do so and usually not break the rules.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#132

Post by tacocataco »

Fentanyl in the heroin supply is a direct result of prohibition.

You could put people in prison and they'll still be able to get drugs. Is it worth the erosion of our civil liberties to tell people what to do with their own bodies? Perhaps this erosion was the entire purpose of the War on Drugs.

Hopefully people sick with addiction will some day have access to clean drugs of a known potency.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#133

Post by tacocataco »

zytron3 wrote: post #74
version_five wrote: post #72

Just want to mention my experience quitting smoking (which is notably hard, but I have no point of reference having not used other drugs). Physical addition is easy. With nicotine there are not really strong symptoms anyway, irritability mainly and inability to focus. I know other drugs are worse but in principle, battling withdrawl is not that tough, people are good at physical hardships. For nicotine it's a few day…

Running is also used successfully by heroin addicts to help quit. It's actually one of the best ways to help with many addictions. Not discounting your achievement in quitting smoking in any way, but the easiest way to quit an addiction is to slot in a replacement habit that is also pleasurable, and running is deeply satisfying

Getting healthy is such a personal journey.

I hate running, and could never keep up a workout routine with it involved.

Then i found i could really push myself in the pool and have fun. Swimming is so much easier on my body and when I do laps it's almost like a sensory deprivation tank. Just me and the water.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#134

Post by tacocataco »

zephrx1111 wrote: post #52

I disagree with this article, not because of it's correctness, which I don't care. It is more about the perspective. This kind of "explanation", has nothing good to solve the problem. It is just yet another aftermath "excuse research". In east Asia, we had an infamous example: Chang Hsueh-liang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang%20Hsueh-liang . The problem is clear here: if we could find an excuse for him, then we c…

I want to be free to do what I want with my own body.

I want justice system reform.

I want the drug supply to be as clean and safe as possible.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#135

Post by girvo »

stan_kirdey wrote: post #42
johnea wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if every addict had good opportunity for a prosperous life, do you think the number of overdoses would increase or descrease? The brain highjakcking still occurrs in a context. While some people simply use for kicks, many others are trying to escape some intractable situtaion. Improving life opportunities would only help reduce extreme addiction and overdose...

I think opportunities might help people avoid taking the drug in the first place, but from observations, even folks with seemingly great jobs and families often fall to opioids once they try them.

Those with seemingly great jobs and families often still have deep trauma that you don’t see. Signed, an ex heroin addict

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#136

Post by girvo »

nerdponx wrote: post #6
denimnerd42 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't think meth or fentanyl changes his hypothesis. if you see the interviews of those in bandos in Baltimore or on the street in Kensington, they have endured trauma their entire lives. Whether it's societal induced trauma like racism, poverty, family trauma, violence, or whatever else. These people are choosing to escape their "cages" with these drugs.

And yet plenty of people without major life trauma have succumbed to addiction as well. I have no doubt that traumatic life experiences can exacerbate addiction, make it harder to quit, and/or increase propensity to becoming addicted (maybe even increasing propensity to try hard drugs in the first place). But the notion that the addictiveness of heroin, cocaine, alcohol, nicotine, etc. is purely a psychosocial phenom…

> without major life trauma

Who are you to say what is and isn’t major trauma?

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#137

Post by bigbacaloa »

stan_kirdey wrote: post #36

I strongly disagree with the article. I work in the space and been involved in this topic for the last 20 years. While the article claims that jails only worsen addiction, correctional facilities in the U.S. provide medically-supervised drug rehabilitation programs that have high success rates. Folks with substance use disorder are given medication for withdrawal and co-occurring mental health issues. There are withd…

Why do you jail fentanyl addicts and not alcoholics?

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#138

Post by DiscourseFan »

One day I might find myself addicted to some substance which I was supposed to avoid but some situation in my life made me fall back on the drug over and over again until I couldn't live without it--this is something that could happen to any of us.

But I know that there is more to addiction than poor social circumstance--and many users of addictive substances do it as part of their social-world, most drug-use is social to some extent. Bars, smoke-breaks. Homeless heroin users are usually hanging out together while high. I host dinner parties and get really drunk with my friends. Drugs, addictive ones, are a part of the fabric of our society. People get high, they drink coffee/tea, they take something to help them sleep, they use poppers during sex, they smoke to destress from work. When a corporation understands this, they can engineer a drug and insert it into society such that the nature of its use becomes embedded in peoples' day-to-day lives to reap massive profits. Its the same as an iPhone, Instagram, Silicon Valley writ large. It's the model of so-called "late capitalism."

And even when someone gets clean, they probably are involved in a world still where their friends use, when they are always close to the drug. After a while, the neurophysiological changes are so extreme that it is practically impossible to get someone to stay sober for long. I accept that I could become a lost cause one day, just like so many unfortunate addicts in our society. I could become a burden on my friends and family and ruin my life. Sometimes you can't help people.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#139

Post by KnobbleMcKnees »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #54
refurb wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oxycodone was always known to be addictive. It’s right on the label from day one. “Also at the time of OxyContin’s approval, FDA product labeling warned of the danger of abuse of the drug and that crushing a controlled-release tablet followed by intravenous injection could result in a lethal overdose. There was no evidence to suggest at the time that crushing the controlled-release capsule followed by oral ingestion…

Yeah that was saying if you crushed n injected it would be addictive. No. It was addictive in literally any form. They knew that too, n it wasn't on the packaging. You kind of have to be a monster to say something that callous.

Both sides benefit from the average Joe not knowing the facts. This is, in a nutshell, why so much FUD exists about drug addiction.

For dealers, it gets people through the gateway. For the anti drugs crowd, it's the equivalent of preventing teenage sex by not telling them how it's done

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#140

Post by krageon »

davelondon wrote: post #55

It's a nice story but it's actually a load of rubbish... https://theoutline.com/post/2205/this-38-year-old-study-is-s... "Despite his claims of a revolutionary breakthrough, Alexander had trouble finding a journal to publish his results. Both Science and Nature rejected the study for publication, likely due to significant problems with the methodology and results. Pharmacology Biochemistry and Behavior published the…

The situation described (cannot reproduce) is the standard in modern paper publishing, a significant fraction of even widely cited papers are just full of nonsense. The fact that it is not replicated in big publishers should therefore be sought in a different direction (I would say a political one).
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