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It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

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Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#71

Post by nick_ »

throw-4e451c8 wrote: post #56
xrd wrote: post #13

I've got a friend who recently was hospitalized for fentanyl addiction. Twenty years ago he was my first investor in my first startup. He was the guy that taught me about mediation. He was the first vegetarian I knew. He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. The cab company forced him out so he wouldn't even capitalize on the partial ownership of the land they owned.…

> He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. I am sorry for your friend, but not for him losing out on his rent seeker plans.

The folks flagging your post would hunt the poor for sport if it was legally and socially acceptable.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#72

Post by version_five »

Just want to mention my experience quitting smoking (which is notably hard, but I have no point of reference having not used other drugs).

Physical addition is easy. With nicotine there are not really strong symptoms anyway, irritability mainly and inability to focus. I know other drugs are worse but in principle, battling withdrawl is not that tough, people are good at physical hardships. For nicotine it's a few days.

It's the rest of your life that's the problem, because you know that something that has an effect you enjoy immensely (and you tend to view use nostalgically though rose colored glasses) and you could do it any time if you wanted to. You need to deal with that forever. And if you slip you're back on the thick of things - like why alcoholics can't have a social drink.

So anyway, I sort of agree with the article, because it's easier to quit when you have something going on (I started walking and then running, which is what I attribute to success). Though I also think humans are complex enough that making a "rat paradise" for someone is not at all tenable.

Edit: and just to conclude, I smoked for 15 years and quit 12 years ago. I still want to smoke, I still dream about it, I still know I would enjoy it. I will never do it and I've learned to cope, but wanting to is something I'll live with forever. That's what makes addiction hard. If it was just a couple sweaty nights tied to a bed, things would be very different.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#73

Post by generalizations »

version_five wrote: post #72

Just want to mention my experience quitting smoking (which is notably hard, but I have no point of reference having not used other drugs). Physical addition is easy. With nicotine there are not really strong symptoms anyway, irritability mainly and inability to focus. I know other drugs are worse but in principle, battling withdrawl is not that tough, people are good at physical hardships. For nicotine it's a few day…

> because you know that something that has an effect you enjoy immensely

> And if you slip you're back on the thick of things - like why alcoholics can't have a social drink.

I know someone who prescribes naltrexone for alcohol addiction, which has the specific purpose of blocking the positive effect of the alcohol. So you can have the drink, and you won't enjoy it, and it's easier to live with.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#74

Post by zytron3 »

version_five wrote: post #72

Just want to mention my experience quitting smoking (which is notably hard, but I have no point of reference having not used other drugs). Physical addition is easy. With nicotine there are not really strong symptoms anyway, irritability mainly and inability to focus. I know other drugs are worse but in principle, battling withdrawl is not that tough, people are good at physical hardships. For nicotine it's a few day…

Running is also used successfully by heroin addicts to help quit. It's actually one of the best ways to help with many addictions. Not discounting your achievement in quitting smoking in any way, but the easiest way to quit an addiction is to slot in a replacement habit that is also pleasurable, and running is deeply satisfying

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#75

Post by version_five »

zytron3 wrote: post #74
version_five wrote: post #72

Just want to mention my experience quitting smoking (which is notably hard, but I have no point of reference having not used other drugs). Physical addition is easy. With nicotine there are not really strong symptoms anyway, irritability mainly and inability to focus. I know other drugs are worse but in principle, battling withdrawl is not that tough, people are good at physical hardships. For nicotine it's a few day…

Running is also used successfully by heroin addicts to help quit. It's actually one of the best ways to help with many addictions. Not discounting your achievement in quitting smoking in any way, but the easiest way to quit an addiction is to slot in a replacement habit that is also pleasurable, and running is deeply satisfying

Personally I think what's great about running is that it's also addictive, and so the same personality quirks that make you susceptible to other addictions, at least in my case, make you susceptible to becoming a regular runner.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#76

Post by scoofy »

version_five wrote: post #72

Just want to mention my experience quitting smoking (which is notably hard, but I have no point of reference having not used other drugs). Physical addition is easy. With nicotine there are not really strong symptoms anyway, irritability mainly and inability to focus. I know other drugs are worse but in principle, battling withdrawl is not that tough, people are good at physical hardships. For nicotine it's a few day…

I quit smoking well over a decade ago. It was very hard.

I use the crass metaphor of a gorgeous ex-girlfriend who is terrible for you and you know it, as a way to describe the mindset I came to with the difficulty of quitting. The idea being, when you’re lonely, you know you could call her up and she would come over and you’d get what felt good, but not what you wanted. Only when you get to the point where you know it’s a waste of time can you quit. That took me years.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#77

Post by pault »

retrac wrote: post #47
antonvs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Oxycodone was always known to be addictive, like any other opiate. The claim from the company was that Oxycontin , which was a slow release form of oxycodone, was less addictive because of the slow release. That turned out to be largely BS, but it wasn’t helped by the fact that addicts would crush the tablets, eliminating the slow release aspect.

> The claim from the company was that Oxycontin, which was a slow release form of oxycodone, was less addictive because of the slow release. A similar claim is now made about Vyvanse, a pro-drug for amphetamine. Like a slow release formulation, but needs to be metabolized first. The slower onset, less sharp peak, makes it less euphoric for a similar effective dose, which is supposedly one of the mechanisms involved w…

That’s interesting, I’ve been on vyvanse for five years now and never felt any of the telltale signs of dependency (which I am familiar with). I had to stop taking it for a month once and it just made me very drowsy for a week.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#78

Post by [deleted] »

civilitty wrote: post #64
mobilefriendly wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My family member died from his addiction and I'm still angry at him. He made several decades of selfish, disastrous choices. He had every advantage in the world and squandered it all. I'm angry we don't do more to fight these drugs. Drug dealing is very much a violent crime, it killed my cousin. The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. Plenty of blame all around but central is the person who decides to…

> The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. You mean modern medicine? That's what makes this problem so pernicious - so much of it was created by the people fictionalized in shows like House MD and Grey's Anatomy not The Wire and Breaking Bad.

[deleted]

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#79

Post by mordae »

mobilefriendly wrote: post #58
xrd wrote: post #13

I've got a friend who recently was hospitalized for fentanyl addiction. Twenty years ago he was my first investor in my first startup. He was the guy that taught me about mediation. He was the first vegetarian I knew. He owned four cab licenses in Portland. Then Uber came in and shredded his retirement plan. The cab company forced him out so he wouldn't even capitalize on the partial ownership of the land they owned.…

My family member died from his addiction and I'm still angry at him. He made several decades of selfish, disastrous choices. He had every advantage in the world and squandered it all. I'm angry we don't do more to fight these drugs. Drug dealing is very much a violent crime, it killed my cousin. The popular culture that celebrates drugs and dealers. Plenty of blame all around but central is the person who decides to…

> Plenty of blame all around but central is the person who decides to use.

Oh get off your high horse.

I've had two uncles die from alcoholism. In reality, it was the divorces and way more complex circumstances that really did them in. It really is the cage.

Re: It’s not the chemicals that cause addiction (2017)

#80

Post by denton-scratch »

The author's contention is that "addiction" is a result of circumstances, not of substances. He cites a rat study, and that's about it.

I don't think that's correct. I do think that addiction results from circumstances, and it's impossible to quit if the circumstances are wrong; but depending on the substance, withdrawal can mean life-threatening seizures.

Suggesting that the primary (author implies "sole") cause of addiction is circumstances enables all these claims of sex addiction, chocolate addiction, sugar addiction and so on.

Author says at the end that the word "addiction" is outdated; I agree, because it's been hijacked to refer to any kind of obsessive or repetitive behaviour. We need a new word for a chemical dependency that threatens withdrawal symptoms more serious than feeling rather down.

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