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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

681–690 of 778 posts

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want public transportation infrastructure and far, far, FAR fewer cars. I also want this, but I grew up in LA and thus realize that there are places where this won't happen. > I don't want any more money invested in self-driving cars. I would take money invested in self-driving cars over money "invested" in public transit in wildly inefficient ways that's less investment and more waste. The problem with the posit…

This makes little sense to me? Investing in public transportation is a much more means tested way of reducing traffic accidents. Countries with good public transportation infrastructure have much less traffic deaths per 100k than car focused countries. Why? Well it makes sense. Public transportation is much more safe all around as you are greatly reducing the amount of people in charge of machines capable of easily k…

> Investing in public transportation is a much more means tested way of reducing traffic accidents.

Selection bias. By definition, you're looking at public transportation that exists. How many traffic accidents have been reduced by the bullet train in CA that has had $80 billion in investment so far? Zero.

> So when you say "investing in self driving cars is investing in saving lives" you are right. It's just a much more inefficient way of doing it.

In the cases in which money can be efficiently deployed, you are correct. But has the $80 billion (let's say that again - $80,000,000,000) spent on the CA bullet been more efficient than $80 billion of spending on self-driving cars? Clearly not.

The problem is that there are limits to how much money you can deploy towards public transit at any reasonable level of efficiency. This is true because of geography, and it's true because of politics. In those places where you can use money well on transit, I fully support it, but once you've exhausted those, you're still going to be left with five figures of traffic deaths a year that can be saved by self driving cars.

Also, you ignored my last paragraph - the comparison of spending money on transit vs. self-driving is not one that makes sense, because the money comes from two different places. VCs don't invest in public transit. Google doesn't invest in public transit.

Self-driving cars are something that will provide a huge societal benefit at no cost to taxpayers. If you're a member of the general public, spending money on public transit is infinitely more inefficient than spending money on self-driving cars, because that transit money could be used to benefit you in other ways, whereas the private funding to self-driving cars would probably just be returned to shareholders or invested in other tech companies if it weren't spent there.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, that's the elephant in the room. Self driving cars by virtue of being self driving can be sent on trips by themselves without requiring the driver to be present. The presence of a driver is a limiting factor, once that one drops away there will be many more trips. Suddenly kids can use the car and all kinds of pick up and delivery jobs become cost effective in a way that they are not today.

Ah yes! Would love to know how the crowd that protests better public transit, pedestrian paths and bike lanes as “taking away space from cars” will respond to roads being further clogged with… empty cars? We’re really going to spend billions and billions on further car infrastructure, more reduction in space-constrained cities towards pedestrian and bike infrastructure, and even the displacement of existing homes and…

To be fair, the current cars on the road are, on average, almost empty.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#683
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do we want from self driving cars? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I want public transportation infrastructure and far, far, FAR fewer cars. I think the US should strive to reduce car ownership by 75% over the next 20 years, at least in cities over a certain population size. I don't want any more money invested in self-driving cars. But I'm also a grown-up of a certain age and realize the bright-eyed 20-something…

This ship sailed like 60 years ago (blame your parents, speaking of consequences). At this point, autonomous driving is the best we can do in places like Los Angeles or San Diego.

Throwing up your hands whining "Its to haaaaarrd" is very un-tech-bro of you.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#684
post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the inside? I live in NYC and its metro and bus system is amazing, and even then it's still worse than what I experienced in Asia, we're for example in Seoul, I did not have to walk more than five minutes to be able to get on a train or bus and when I got off, I similarly did not have to walk more than five minutes to get to my end destination.

What about someone who doesn’t want to travel with other people in public transport, and also doesn’t want to walk the 10 minutes of the journey?

If you want avoid other people like that you probably shouldn’t live in a city.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#685
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean that's a bus or Bus Rapid Transit, because a train requires dedicated infrastructure and is a fixed route. A bus can route around problems where a train cannot. In Boston they're trying to connect North Station and South Station, a distance of about 5 miles. The cost is at least $10 billion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North%E2%80%93South_Rail_Link

$10B because it was neglected for a century. But that's peanuts compared to CEO compensation. So tax the rich and get it done.

We did: https://massbudget.org/fairshare/

That's still about 5 years of the total raised revenue alone to meet the minimum for just this one connector.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize that the denser something is, the more efficient it is? Same is true of transistors and cities, and for the same reason: space unused is wasted.

[flagged]

Okay so you're just advocating for mass murder...

I don't think there's a productive conversation here anymore, clearly you have some personal vendetta against cities based on some rural experiences you've had.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#687
A useful public transportation system build out in a America is more ambitions than fully autonomous driving. Human-less driving is more of a technical problem than can probably be overcome with research, 10s or 100s of billions worth of development and municipal cooperation on autonomous driving infrastructure.

Public transport is a cultural problem as well as a technical problem. I live in a city with decent public transportation system options. I use it frequently and I'm grateful for it. But as soon as I go even a few miles outside the city, the public transportation options are slim to non-existent. I wouldn't even pretend for a second it's a practical option. You better have a car.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#688
post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ship sailed like 60 years ago (blame your parents, speaking of consequences). At this point, autonomous driving is the best we can do in places like Los Angeles or San Diego.

For the ship to come back to port, someone has to want it to come back to port.

I guess you don't know anyone that makes under $50k/yr. in the US. I'm guessing you probably just associate with other high-paid techies who can't understand why commoners just can't "eat cake". Trust me: when a bus route is shut down because rich people sniffle at a 0.2% tax for something they'd be too embarrassed to use, thousands suffer. If you've never had to switch from a 30 minute bus ride to a 1hr bus ride because of this, you will not understand any of this debate or its consequences, as I stated.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#689
post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not want to deal with the hassle but I wouldn’t assume that applies to everyone. A fully autonomous car (however unrealistic it may be) would be a game changer simply for the economics alone. Not paying full tax, insurance etc for a vehicle while retaining all of the transport possibility would be incredibly tempting to anyone on a budget. Not having to build housing with parking included could do great thing…

The economics won't work outside some small niches. Any sort of car sharing service means a business is managing that service and charging high fees for it, in addition to passing on tax and insurance expenses to customers. The taxes and insurance on my own cars are cheap. Car sharing (short term rental) services already exist and can be a great option for childless young people who live in a dense city and seldom le…

> Car sharing (short term rental) services

I would expect self driving car to have much higher utilization most of the time. In addition you have people who can't/don't want to drive and would be able to use the service.

> practices or games and hope it actually shows up promptly?

Effectively it would be a much cheaper (supposedly) Uber/Lyft/etc. alternative.

> sports practices or games and hope it actually shows up promptly? And

That's a bit of corner case and generally I would expect it would reduce the number of households which have more than 1 car rather than a full replacement for car ownership.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#690

Clickbait title to say the least ! While Tesla did amazing things for EVs adoption, and self driving (even if one may say the main contribution is hyping it) it’s hard to see them as leaders anymore. Fact is, Mercedes is taking responsibility for its system while Tesla is not. Tesla claims (and especially it’s fanboys) starts to look like Theranos. Yeah it almost work and it will be a game changer. Yeah well… I’m cur…

Is there a database of videos of Mercedes? I know “they take liability” but if I’m dead, that still sucks. What has Mercedes ceo commented about it? I think you’ll find Mercedes just don’t publish anything, where as Tesla pretty much develop in the open. Regardless of the sausage, some people just don’t like knowing how it’s made.

considering the circumstances the system currently supports I can't imagine a scenario that a human driver could have avoided in which the car could cause your death.
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