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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#651

Post by justapassenger »

onethought wrote: post #594
justapassenger wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know you’re not the only user of the road? And there’s tons of videos, with predictable abuse, where people allow cars to do illegal/dangerous things to see “if it’ll figure it out”? If Tesla influencer his me with his car, I didn’t consent to that. Or when erratic behavior (like FSD driving against the traffic, which you have tons of videos of) will cause others to crash - they didn’t consent to that. Tesla h…

But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where is the uproar for allowing them to drive? Where as Tesla only allows fully licensed drivers and until recently only pretty good ones at that. I think you’re just regurgitating the standard anti-Tesla talking points… and avoided the questions on the fact Mercede…

> But we already let learner drivers try things out on the road, and their supervisors can’t even take control. Human drivers crash and make mistakes too… where is the uproar for allowing them to drive?

Drinking water supply also gets contaminated all the time. So I assume you won’t have any issues if I start pouring my experimental medicine into your municipal water supply, right? How else can I get large scale data to test it and develop?

Remember, cancer kills millions of people per year! I hope you are not against progress to fight it!

> I think you’re just regurgitating the standard anti-Tesla talking points… and avoided the questions on the fact Mercedes hasn’t tested this in actual streets and has just rolled it out and while it’s admitting liability isn’t that just as bad as what Tesla is doing?

What makes you think that Mercedes didn’t test on the streets? Just because there were no army of YouTubers, not trained in any way, with no relation to the company, making videos?

> Given all the approaches (with a hope of working) are using AI - how do you get the data to train the AI? This isn’t a Tesla problem, this is an AI training problem.

Yeah, if you think it’s an AI problem, not how to build and test safety critical systems that’s all I need to know about your understanding of the problem domain.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#652

Post by ripe »

as-j wrote: post #191

The actual title is: > Germans beat Tesla to autonomous L3 driving in the Golden State Which mashed a lot more sense since Waymo, Cruise and Zoox all have L4 autonomous cars on the road today in California operating with no human inside at all.

> Waymo, Cruise and Zoox all have L4 autonomous cars on the road today

Wonder why you can’t buy these L4 cars. No Level 4 cars are commercially available in the US. [1]

What you are describing are pilot programs propped up with a huge, expensive, unprofitable infrastructure of remote monitoring, support vehicles, and backup drivers. Waymo’s technology might be promising, but today these companies are bleeding money.

In contrast, Mercedes is selling retail cars with Level 3 features to consumers and taking responsibility for them.

[1] https://www.autopilotreview.com/self-driving-cars-sae-levels...

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#654

Post by Consultant32452 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #495
Consultant32452 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you realize that the denser something is, the more efficient it is? Same is true of transistors and cities, and for the same reason: space unused is wasted.

[flagged]

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#655

Post by Consultant32452 »

atyppo wrote: post #501
Consultant32452 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How could you possibly imagine the average city resident uses more energy when dwellings are smaller, newer on average (more energy efficient), and residents are less likely to own a car?

Doesn't matter if they use half as much energy per capita if there's 50x as many of them.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#656

Post by ricardobeat »

concordDance wrote: post #621
gamblor956 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, the Fucked Up Deaths are insane. For point of comparison, the entire rest of the auto industry, worldwide has fewer advanced driver deaths than Tesla, despite millions more cars on the road with advanced driving functionality. On an absolute, and relative, basis Tesla advanced driving is the most dangerous advanced driving system in the world.

I'd love to know the numbers on this. How many crashes with advanced drivers enabled are there and how many miles of driving have they done?

They might be mislead by articles like this one: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/15/business/self-driving-car...

Where in the first few paragraphs it gives the impression Tesla has 5:1 deaths, but later you learn that they are including simple lane keeping and cruise control in the comparison, and

> None of the cars using the automated systems were involved in fatal accidents

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#657

Post by ChatGTP »

neuronic wrote: post #595
fasthands9 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autonomous driving would reduce car ownership but it almost would certainly make traffic worse. The cost to get driven around or have things delivered would be less while demand would stay the same.

Many traffic jams occur for no other reason than human behavior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qy6MrDcukk Autopilots immediately get rid of that so I would disagree and argue the less humans the better. Have fun playing around with the "politeness" lever for example: https://traffic-simulation.de/

3x as many cars using infrastructure not made for that type of increase in demand will cause traffic jams. No matter what the auto-pilot friendly meter is set at.

Traffic lights are a bitch, changing lanes is inevitable, incidents are inevitable.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#658

Post by barbariangrunge »

worik wrote: post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

> Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) is great. Helpful, especially in city driving.

> I would appreciate "automated rumble strips" that warns me gently if I veer out of my lane.

Honda already does both of these, since 2020 at least iirc

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#659

Post by aziaziazi »

fastball wrote: post #644
aziaziazi wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let’s see the fatalities per billion passenger km: Rail: 0.09 Car: 2.52 https://international-railway-safety-council.com/safety-stat... (eu data)

How many fatalities have the aforementioned car systems had? Also European trains seem to run much, much safer than American ones (the derailments I was talking about were in the US), so doesn't seem like the best comparison either.

Indeed, it seems the ratio of fatalities for rail/cars is around 1:25 in EU (see above) and 1:10 in USA [0].

Comparing those data, driving is also much safer in the EU: death rate per 100M passenger for cars in 2021: 0.57. Multiply par 10 (100M to 1B) and divide by 1.6 (miles to km) = 3.5625. Rate in EU = 2.52.

Your right to point out those numbers aren’t split by driving assist options. Until that (still imaginary) future with +95% AV it seems hard to beat that 1:10 ratio, even more with vehicles weight steadily increase [1]

[0] https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/home-and-community/safety-topics...

[1] https://www.epa.gov/automotive-trends/explore-automotive-tre... (select « weight » then « cars » for regulatory class and vehicle type)

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#660

Post by flakeoil »

worik wrote: post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

> What do we want from self driving cars?

I would say, drive me long distances on the high way. The rest (last mile, city country side) I can do myself. It also aligns with the fact that it is easier to make autonomous driving work for high ways than inside cities etc.

This would make taking an airplane less tempting and as my car can fit the whole family we do not need to fill up 4-5 seats in an airplane and we use much less CO2 per passenger.

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