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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

theregister.com

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#581

Post by valval »

tshaddox wrote: post #449
whyenot wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. There are so many vehicles, especially historically, from Toyota Tacomas, Jeep Wranglers, Honda Civics, to yes, Porsche 911s that are available with both AT and MT. Considering the number of vehicles insured in the US, and the fact that you can do paired comparisons like this, if there is a meaningful difference, insurers would see it. edit: link from State Farm, a large US insurer. https://www.statefarm.…

I’m still skeptical there’s enough data to distinguish from the obvious selection effects. The difference in safety between manual and automatic 911s probably tells you essentially nothing about whether a random driver would be safer driving a random automatic or a random manual.

It is hard to distinguish indeed, since there is no noticeable difference.

Jokes aside, as a data scientist of a long career, I don’t share your skepticism. It would be a hilariously easy task to extract this information from the data with the variables involved and the records insurance companies are able to keep.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#582

Post by satvikpendem »

valval wrote: post #576
satvikpendem wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the inside? I live in NYC and its metro and bus system is amazing, and even then it's still worse than what I experienced in Asia, we're for example in Seoul, I did not have to walk more than five minutes to be able to get on a train or bus and when I got off, I similarly did not have to walk more than five minutes to get to my end destination.

What about someone who doesn’t want to travel with other people in public transport, and also doesn’t want to walk the 10 minutes of the journey?

Then I guess it's their loss. Unless they're unable to use public transport, I shouldn't have to have the externalities of them using cars, such as carbon emissions, parking space that would otherwise be used, noise and light pollution, etc.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#583

Post by valval »

BoorishBears wrote: post #415
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People also don't seem to understand Mercedes has a separate L2 system that works above 45 mph that already scores better than AP by consumer reports Isn't Mercedes' L2 system non-upgradable, though? i.e. people with Merc's L2 system today won't be able to upgrade to L3+ later on, they'll need to buy a whole new car - right? I bring this up only because I bought my X in 2018 with FSD prepaid - it's 5 years old now,…

According to Elon HW V2/2.5 was going to be FSD solved in 2016. Now HW V4 will be FSD solved. There've been multiple paid upgrades along that path that depending on exactly how Elon convinced a given buyer to pay for FSD previously. The fact that you're going to claim that Tesla, the company that famously discounts vehicles wholesale before unannounced upgrades, silently downgraded their CPO program to a used car pro…

It’s painful to see your matter-of-fact tone regarding things you have absolutely no clue about. You seem to know next to nothing about the auto space in general. Every carmaker raises and lowers their prices according to supply and demand. And no, there is no driver assistance system among any of the big manufacturers that come anywhere near Tesla’s system. And yes, exploring a problem space that hasn’t been explored before will face setbacks and require many iterations. Those iterations are free for the customers, however.

Elon makes a lot of “promises”, you’re right in that. Although, he really doesn’t. He makes educated guesses that you take for promises. Once Tesla’s own website and news outlets deliver those “promises”, should you start taking them for actual ones.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#584

Post by sdeframond »

dvt wrote: post #499
0xr0kk3r wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What do we want from self driving cars? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. I want public transportation infrastructure and far, far, FAR fewer cars. I think the US should strive to reduce car ownership by 75% over the next 20 years, at least in cities over a certain population size. I don't want any more money invested in self-driving cars. But I'm also a grown-up of a certain age and realize the bright-eyed 20-something…

This ship sailed like 60 years ago (blame your parents, speaking of consequences). At this point, autonomous driving is the best we can do in places like Los Angeles or San Diego.

For the ship to come back to port, someone has to want it to come back to port.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#585

Post by simondotau »

justapassenger wrote: post #455
simondotau wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your sarcastic retort is not consistent with anything anyone is arguing. Nobody has said FSD is ready to be relied upon, least of all Tesla, who still calls it a "beta". This isn't what I said. This isn't what zaroth said. Nobody said it. So why did you say it? I realise this isn't a simple argument, but let me try again: DRIVE PILOT is ~100% capable of limited self-driving on ~0.01% of roads (a curated set of slow h…

I’m sarcastic as it’s hard to assume people argue here in either good faith or have any idea about the problem. Being capable of 90% self driving means it’s not self driving, period. And going to ~100% is extremely, extremely difficult. Anyone comparing those numbers to show Tesla’s superiority (or even being in the same league) just doesn’t understand anything about safety critical systems. What’s better - Airbus 32…

> it’s hard to assume people argue here in either good faith or have any idea about the problem.

Funny, I had the same feeling.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#586

Post by eega »

asdff wrote: post #417
AussieWog93 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would h…

Lead footing is a phenomenon exclusive to automatics. Basically, you are on a 35mph road maybe, you lead foot some, the car shifts from third to the overdrive gear, now you are going like 45 or 50mph with the engine barely making any noise, you thinking this is just fine. On a manual, you'd know if you were in third and went to 50mph—the engine would be howling at another couple thousand rpm depending on the car. Goi…

That‘s just silly - I drive my (manually shifted) car basically solely in the highest gear in non-city traffic and have the same effect. Nothing to do with automatic, but with powerful cars.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#587

Post by eega »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #412
worik wrote: post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would h…

There a loads of cars with automatic transmission in Europe - especially the newer, medium to premium level cars. But it definitely isn‘t as prevalent as in the US.

It is no problem at all to drink coffee or even eat while driving a manual car, so no idea where this comes from ;)

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#588

Post by coutego »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #412
worik wrote: post #367

What do we want from self driving cars? Naturally I wand a car I can summon from the pub that will drive me the 20km, over country roads, to my house while I mix cocktails or have a nap. That may never happen, current technology does not seem up to it. Then what? Modern cruise control, that keeps my car a constant distance form the car in front (unless it roars off at a speed higher that what I am comfortable with) i…

Recently I was reading that in Europe, most cars sold don't even have automatic transmission, yet the drivers there are much safer than than people in the US or Australia. There was some speculation that because they shift gears manually, they have to pay more attention to the road and can't do things like drink coffees while driving. They also enjoy driving a lot more than we do. I wonder if other technology would h…

Hmmm, being from Europe and having driven on a holiday in the US, I'd say that people are more careful and respect rules better in the US than in Europe (certainly than Southern Europe, but even in parts of the North). Driving in US reminded me of driving in the UK.

Of course, US is a big country and my perception could be not very typical. Extrapolating from one data point is dangerous. It's like comparing driving in Naples and Amsterdam. Both are Europe, but the driving experience is fairly dissimilar.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#589

Post by tuatoru »

afavour wrote: post #510
nradov wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Autonomous driving is just another safety and convenience feature, like cruise control or anti-lock brakes. It won't fundamentally change anything. I see no reason to give up owning my own cars even if they can drive themselves. The biggest reason is that I use my cars like a rolling storage locker or mobile base of operations when I'm out doing stuff. There's no way I'm going to deal with the hassle of shared vehicl…

You may not want to deal with the hassle but I wouldn’t assume that applies to everyone. A fully autonomous car (however unrealistic it may be) would be a game changer simply for the economics alone. Not paying full tax, insurance etc for a vehicle while retaining all of the transport possibility would be incredibly tempting to anyone on a budget. Not having to build housing with parking included could do great thing…

> Not having to build housing with parking included could do great things for housing availability.

This is a purely political decision that does not depend on the availability of autonomous vehicles. It won't happen because it would reduce property prices.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#590

Post by akmarinov »

DarmokJalad1701 wrote: post #348
akmarinov wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not shipping… If you buy a model 3 TODAY you get V3

Not on the 3. But they are shipping it with the Model Y. https://driveteslacanada.ca/news/tesla-now-shipping-model-y-...

So not “every vehicle” then?
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