Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California • Hacker News Board

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#271

Post by adsfgiodsnrio » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

samr71 wrote: post #223

adsfgiodsnrio wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know Tesla cannot match Mercedes. We don't know whether or not Mercedes can match Tesla. Mercedes isn't reckless enough to let untrained fanboys play with defective software in two-ton vehicles on public roads.

"We know Tesla cannot match Mercedes" - how? You know this? "reckless" "untrained fanboys" "defective software" - what is this tone? Why is it reckless? Why do the fanboys need training? Why do you think the software is defective? These are significant unjustified claims! To me, it seems each company has a different strategy for self-driving, which aren't directly comparable. Beta testing with relatively untrained pe…

>how? You know this?

California seems to think so.

>Beta testing with relatively untrained people on public roads seems necessary for either strategy though.

Then why is Tesla the only company doing it?

Mercedes has an L3 system shipping today and they didn't see any need to endanger my life to build it.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#272

Post by fallingknife » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:41 PM UTC

conroy wrote: post #262

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

> Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of LA for 60 minutes with zero human intervention. 17 fatalities, 736 crashes: The shocking toll of Tesla’s Autopilot https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-a...

You're right, that is shockingly low! 43,000 people die in car crashes in the US every year, and only 17 in Teslas since 2019. That's only 1 in 7500.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#273

Post by qwytw » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

> This seems like a marketing gimmick by Mercedes at best; the two technologies aren't even in the same league.

You might be right or not but gave zero arguments in your comment. The fact that these safety/regulatory restrictions exist does not mean the system is not more capable.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#274

Post by charcircuit » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:43 PM UTC

conroy wrote: post #262

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

> Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of LA for 60 minutes with zero human intervention. 17 fatalities, 736 crashes: The shocking toll of Tesla’s Autopilot https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-a...

Just because you crash that doesn't mean you aren't able to navigate without human intervention. Humans are also capable of crashing their car.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#275

Post by golemiprague » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:44 PM UTC

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

[dead]

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#276

Post by merth » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:45 PM UTC

conroy wrote: post #262

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

> Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of LA for 60 minutes with zero human intervention. 17 fatalities, 736 crashes: The shocking toll of Tesla’s Autopilot https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-a...

He means under their supervisor control. There are "normal" people who do their best to cause a crash.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#277

Post by 221qqwe » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:46 PM UTC

ifdefdebug wrote: post #266

chroma wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference in FSD behavior is due to the EU’s laws on autonomous vehicles. The EU mandates maximum lateral acceleration, lane change times, and many other details that make for a worse (and less safe) driving experience.

Now why would the EU mandate details that make for a less safe driving? You are implying they are either malicious or stunningly incompetent.

> stunningly incompetent

Not stunningly, just moderately. But generally yes, that's a good description for EU bureaucrats.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#278

Post by fallingknife » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:46 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #259

elif wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you find a video of FSD failing on a 40mph highway with no lane changes for an apples to apples comparison... Oh wait that is an unreasonably niche scenario to be worthy of consideration in the context of full autonomy.

Will almost accelerating straight into the guard rail at 30 mph do it? - https://youtu.be/sNBEHumIHJI?t=14 https://www.carscoops.com/2022/05/tesla-driver-claims-model-...

That road is not within the operating requirements of the Mercedes L3 which is only allowed on highways where such turns are never found.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#279

Post by georgyo » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:47 PM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #272

conroy wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of LA for 60 minutes with zero human intervention. 17 fatalities, 736 crashes: The shocking toll of Tesla’s Autopilot https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-a...

You're right, that is shockingly low! 43,000 people die in car crashes in the US every year, and only 17 in Teslas since 2019. That's only 1 in 7500.

These statistics are meaningless.

How many Tesla cars with full self driving are there compared to regular cars?

A Tesla with FSD will only be using FSD a small fraction of the time.

If we had statistics on the number of hours FSD was active compared to the number of hours all other car driving of all cars we might be able to compared these numbers.

Hour wise, I think normal driving is way above 7500:1.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#280

Post by jimjimjim » Sat, Jun 10, 2023, 9:48 PM UTC

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

good god! No autonomous drive should drive through fog or flooded roads or construction zones. I wouldn't trust any system in those conditions regardless of what stans say.