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Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

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Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#161

Post by ajross »

justapassenger wrote: post #94
Vespasian wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the best "feature": It allows you to take your hands off the wheel and your eyes off the road. This is significant as it means MB takes on liability and will give you sufficient time (i think 10s in the European version) to take over. In the world of corporate liability this is huge even if it isn't a technical achievement by itself.

Only people who don’t understand problem domain think it’s not a technical achievement.

I'll give you 2:1 odds that before this reaches market (looks like end of the year for deliveries per the article) Tesla will duplicate the stunt and lift the driver monitoring requirements in similar situations.

(Edit: two replies here playing gotcha games with prior FSD announcements. But I'm serious: Tesla can do what this Mercedes does already, essentially perfectly, and has been for the two years I've operated the vehicle. The cost to them of duplicating this stunt is near zero. I'll bet you anything they do it.)

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#162

Post by martythemaniak »

jondwillis wrote: post #130
zaroth wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great example! I hope people will take the time to click and watch it drive. I think it’s a tough call in this case. The Tesla is trying not to block an intersection where a light is green but there’s no room to clear the intersection on the other side due to traffic ahead. In fact an oncoming car is able to turn left in front of the Tesla because it waited. Probably the law is that you should NOT enter the…

LA has an unwritten law where 2-3 cars make unprotected lefts after oncoming traffic has cleared on yellow/red lights. Letting FSD drive, it can’t honor this “cultural” (technically illegal) behavior. If I am operating it, off goes FSD in that moment.

Tesla has been specifically reprimanded by NHSTA for allowing FSD to drive like human rather than to the letter of the law. The rolling stops is one I remember, but basically it'll apply to anything.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#163

Post by kbos87 »

belter wrote: post #75
gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

Took me less than a few minutes, to find in the same channel, FSD failing and the human having to intervene. Here it is at the proper time and for a video uploaded 10 hours ago... - https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=995 And even worst failures...looking at all these I simply do not believe the videos posted are not edited or a selection of a success out of many failed ones. https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=1252 https://yo…

I’m left wondering what this comment proves? The four situations you posted were the most minor of minor annoyances when the car was being too cautious, and you’ve decided they must be cherry picked without any evidence given.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#164

Post by adsfgiodsnrio »

wilg wrote: post #107
belter wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Took me less than a few minutes, to find in the same channel, FSD failing and the human having to intervene. Here it is at the proper time and for a video uploaded 10 hours ago... - https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=995 And even worst failures...looking at all these I simply do not believe the videos posted are not edited or a selection of a success out of many failed ones. https://youtu.be/KG4yABOlNjk?t=1252 https://yo…

I'm not sure exactly your point. The Tesla does sometimes require intervention, that's why it's Level 2. But it's still attempting to drive in significantly more complicated situations than this Drive Pilot thing. Does Drive Pilot stop at stoplights or make turns? I don't think so. Regarding deceptive editing, plenty of people post their Teslas doing squirrely things and them intervening. So it's not like a secret th…

We know Tesla cannot match Mercedes. We don't know whether or not Mercedes can match Tesla. Mercedes isn't reckless enough to let untrained fanboys play with defective software in two-ton vehicles on public roads.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#165

Post by justapassenger »

ajross wrote: post #161
justapassenger wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only people who don’t understand problem domain think it’s not a technical achievement.

I'll give you 2:1 odds that before this reaches market (looks like end of the year for deliveries per the article) Tesla will duplicate the stunt and lift the driver monitoring requirements in similar situations. (Edit: two replies here playing gotcha games with prior FSD announcements. But I'm serious: Tesla can do what this Mercedes does already, essentially perfectly, and has been for the two years I've operated t…

The Tesla, who claimed they’re full self driving next year, for more than half a decade now?

Cool, let’s wait.

I think it shows how little you understand the problem, to call it a “stunt”.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#166

Post by karaterobot »

gzer0 wrote: post #43

Friendly reminder that this system is HEAVILY limited, with the following restrictions: - Must be under 40 mph - Only during the daylight and only on certain highways - CANNOT be operated on city/country streets - CANNOT be operated in construction zones - CANNOT be during heavy rain or fog or flood roads And for comparison: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZSZTKYEU4 Tesla FSD navigating the complex city streets of…

Skeptical but genuine question here: if Tesla's Level 3 system is more advanced, why don't they have authorization to release it? And why does the article quote Tesla as saying they only have a level 2 system?

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#167

Post by simion314 »

zaroth wrote: post #83
simion314 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you bet your life on a Tesla Twitter promise? They are not even betting one cent on their car safety.

> They are not even betting one cent in their car safety. Do you mean strictly in the sense of accepting liability for crashes while AutoPilot is engaged? Because Tesla makes safety a primary selling point of their vehicles. Objectively Tesla invests hugely in the safety of their vehicles, and scores the absolute highest marks for safety in many government tests. Tesla makes an L2 system where the driver must remain…

No, I mean actually bet your life, say put your little children in the back and send them to some destination because you seen Tesla videos on YouTube.

if you won\t do it for a randoms destination, on what would you risk your children life, on some white listed high-way? which one?

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#168

Post by kelnos »

zaroth wrote: post #83
simion314 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you bet your life on a Tesla Twitter promise? They are not even betting one cent on their car safety.

> They are not even betting one cent in their car safety. Do you mean strictly in the sense of accepting liability for crashes while AutoPilot is engaged? Because Tesla makes safety a primary selling point of their vehicles. Objectively Tesla invests hugely in the safety of their vehicles, and scores the absolute highest marks for safety in many government tests. Tesla makes an L2 system where the driver must remain…

In minor traffic a week or so ago, I ended up next to a Tesla for a few minutes where the driver had zero hands on the wheel, and her eyes were buried in her phone, with her head angled downward. Whatever system was running seemed to be totally fine with that situation; if that's the most advanced driver attention monitoring system available, we're in a lot of trouble. Tesla caring so much about safety is so obviously a bad joke.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#169

Post by nradov »

kbos87 wrote: post #148
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How exactly is Mercedes accepting liability? You’re indemnified.

Mercedes can’t indemnify you. Local police and prosecutors make those decisions.

Nope. Local police and prosecutors have no authority to make decisions on liability. Their authority is limited to criminal matters. However, police reports can generally be used as evidence in civil trials where judges and juries make decisions about liability.

There may be some circumstances where a driver operating a Mercedes-Benz vehicle using Drive Pilot could be committing a criminal offense. For example, I think sitting in the driver's seat while intoxicated would still be illegal even if you're not actually driving. But that is separate from liability.

Re: Mercedes beats Tesla to autonomous driving in California

#170

Post by piotrkaminski »

ajross wrote: post #159
enragedcacti wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[1] (2) (A) “Autonomous vehicle” means any vehicle equipped with autonomous technology that has been integrated into that vehicle that meets the definition of Level 3, Level 4, or Level 5 [2] (c) The manufacturer has in place and has provided the department with evidence of the manufacturer's ability to respond to a judgment or judgments for damages for personal injury, death, or property damage arising from the oper…

Sorry, where do you get "accept liability" from "ability to respond to a judgement for damages"? That's not a requirement to pay, that just requires that the company have the ability to pay if they are found liable! It's the corporate equivalent of requiring liability insurance. Show me the contract (or hell, even a press release) where Mercedes acknowledged accepting liability in the US. I really don't think this ha…

There were a ton of articles around 2022-03-20 (e.g., [1]) that had a line like this:

> Once you engage Drive Pilot, you are no longer legally liable for the car's operation until it disengages.

Not quite a press release but given that Mercedes never denied the claims it's pretty close. It'll be interesting to see how this is implemented legally, of course.

[1] https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a39481699/what-happens-if-...

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