Hopefully this comes to NYC: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12011507/ULEZ-Blade...
New York City will charge drivers going downtown
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Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#92First we had segregated roads for the rich, then airports and and terminals, and now it's full on cities. Welcome to dystopia.
Ironically, public transit (which congregation pricing encourages!) is way less segregated, at least in NYC. Subway cars into Manhattan are filled with everyone from low-income workers to high paid investment bankers. Moms with kids, elderly. Immigrants from all kinds of countries speaking many languages.
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#93So despite the massive ridership of the subway and the fully paid infrastructure and rights of way from 100 years ago, it can't throw off enough cash for modernization of its systems? And instead politicians decide to tax the successful mode of transportation, which is cars. Note that given the density and NY gas taxes, it is a certainty that cars in this area generate surplus cash.
How much money do freeways make directly? How about local roads? Last I checked local roads produce zero revenue. Should we get rid of them?
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#94I’m a fan of charging market efficient rates for shared goods. The congestion situation in the Holland Tunnel is awful and bleeds out into various streets of Manhattan as well. The cost of sitting in crawling traffic with aggressive drivers cutting around is probably much more than an extra $20.
> I’m a fan of charging market efficient rates for shared goods. Are you a fan of charging market rates for transit as well?
Sure, as long as you consider externalities like congestion. That would suggest charging for passage through congested areas (the subject of this thread), and subsidizing mass transit in congested areas.
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hour and a half is no biggie? Is that one way? That sucks more than having a car does by far. Even the last part about "your arms ache but you get used to it" - how is that for disabled people? How is it for the elderly? An extra hour and a half - what about if you have kids at home? Honestly that... Blows? If the options are to destroy the environment or to have to take an extra three hours daily to commute, I choos…
3 hours commutes or destroying the environment aren't the only two options. By changing the way we build cities, and by retrofitting the ones we've already built, we can make places where the walked/biked commute is less than a half hour and the environmental impact is slashed dramatically.
A lot of problems can be solved via better urban planning, but most of us have little control over that. What we do have control over leaves us with a couple of options, but we have hope that maybe our grandkids will have more choices.
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#96Why did the federal government have to sign off on this?
Assuming the tolls aren’t on federal highways, shouldn’t a state be free to decide where to enact tolls on its own roads?
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#97So despite the massive ridership of the subway and the fully paid infrastructure and rights of way from 100 years ago, it can't throw off enough cash for modernization of its systems? And instead politicians decide to tax the successful mode of transportation, which is cars. Note that given the density and NY gas taxes, it is a certainty that cars in this area generate surplus cash.
Pedestrian and bike deaths are climbing [0]. 44% of New Yorkers are considered rent burdened [1] and sure as fuck can't afford a car in the city. Cars can only be considered a successful mode of transportation from a fairly wealthy and elite perspective of a car owner in New York. If you have the cash for the car itself and off-the-street parking, sure, it's probably great. But for everyone else it makes daily life of walking and biking in the street significantly more dangerous with no clear reciprocal benefit.
[0] https://www.curbed.com/2023/04/its-already-been-a-deadly-yea....
[1] https://wherewelive.cityofnewyork.us/explore-data/housing-co...
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#98I’m a fan of charging market efficient rates for shared goods. The congestion situation in the Holland Tunnel is awful and bleeds out into various streets of Manhattan as well. The cost of sitting in crawling traffic with aggressive drivers cutting around is probably much more than an extra $20.
> I’m a fan of charging market efficient rates for shared goods. Are you a fan of charging market rates for transit as well?
For sure, let's charge methods of transportation based on negative externalities such as how much space they take, safety, and noise/particulate pollution.
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you been to New York? The subway is the mode of transportation for nearly everyone and it works great. I wouldn’t say cars are the successful mode of transportation in New York at all
In terms of paying enough taxes to sustain further use, is how I should have phrased it. Why can't the subway fund its own improvements?
Road user fees don't even cover half of the cost of roads let alone make up for all the negative externalities.
Re: New York City will charge drivers going downtown
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I saw London doing that, I expected cities in the US to start that. I am surprised it took so long. I expected this because of the push of toll roads to make people use EZPASS. Depending upon the City, I think this makes sense. But, in the US, I wonder if this will cause another mass migration of people out to the suburbs ? In the US, people are more addicted to their SUVs than heron addicts are to their drug.
London has it relatively easy; the only layer of government above it is the national one. Cities in the US are creatures of their respective states, and the swing votes in states are usually the suburban voters who would be most impacted by a charge like this. —- It also helps that TfL has a track record of delivering many miles of projects and a future expansion plan. MTA is planning on using this to keep the lights…
> London has it relatively easy; the only layer of government above it is the national one.
Is that actually true? I mean, are there no vestiges of England, Scotland and Wales in the UK?