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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#811

Post by curiousllama »

ethbr0 wrote: post #790
curiousllama wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All things can be described as “some percent better” For what it’s worth, the fitness use case is 0 to 1 because a million people are saying “I didn’t exercise; now I do; Oculus is why” No fitness > fitness is 0 to 1 In what way was the iPhone “fundamentally different,” by your definition? Its functionality all existed in a blackberry / mp3 player. It was just “some percent better” at everything - especially interact…

There's a difference between "infinite percent better" (because it was non-existent before) and "some percent better." The fitness use case is a red herring and a software problem. Instilling motivation in people to do things they know are good but don't want to isn't traditionally a money-maker. You're building a better shame-er: how's Peloton doing these days? https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/PTON/financials?p=PTON…

I’m gonna be honest, I just sincerely have no idea what you mean by “fundamentally different.”

Like, Peloton is an exercise bike. A cool one! A great brand and experience! But it’s an exercise bike.

And it’s somehow more “fundamentally different” than this device that is trying to materialize sci fi?

I guess I just don’t get it

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#812

Post by dylan604 »

trey-jones wrote: post #793
nologic01 wrote: post #393

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

I was talking to my daughter about sort of a tangential issue the other day. I want to say it's related because some of these "better" technologies get pushed onto public schools. Some idiot in her class had managed to completely disable (destroy?) a Smart Board by throwing some tiny object and striking it. I have to admit that I don't actually know exactly what a Smart Board is or exactly what its capabilities are,…

I find this similar to those note taking apps. Everyone assumes having notes stored digitally will be more useful by allowing search, sharing between devices/friends, or any of the other propaganda used. However, they all miss the crucial bit of taking notes is that the act of writing the note is the key in helping retain the information. Can't get much cheaper than a pencil and paper, but yet we keep trying and failing.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#813

Post by ozten »

codeulike wrote: post #585
nologic01 wrote: post #393

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

The first time I tried an Oculus Quest was mindblowing, it was a very unique and impressive experience. I wont go on about it but I encourage you to do the Oculus Quest demo app if you get the chance. BUT then the excitement faded and I don't find myself wanting to return to VR much. Having something strapped to your face is awkward and tiring. Tech companies can see the potential because it _is_ breathtaking but are…

ADU metrics are hurt by Facebook’s execution of OS software updates and UX issues that make it a tedious dance. Many releases where create a situation where it is put into a drawer.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#814

Post by vagab0nd »

nologic01 wrote: post #393

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

There's a saying, if you don't believe in VR, you haven't played Half Life: Alyx.

Joking aside, I do think gaming is important to bootstrap VR. Once it's cheap enough and many people have it, it will be much easier to build other things. Personally I think interactive 3D story-telling could be a big one.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#815

Post by dylan604 »

drewmol wrote: post #641
sebzim4500 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure there are millions of people who visit pornhub that would never have visited a pornographic cinema (or whatever they were called).

Agreed. But there are much fewer people who pay for pornhub. Fewer who would buy a $3500 device just for a more immersive pornhub experience. I highly doubt these people are in apple’s target market.

But there a enough people paying for other devices that enhance. Full on silicon body molds of your favorite performer, remote devices to allow for others to stimulate you, get them all connected into an app so that both participants can interact and you have the sexual encounter these people can only dream of

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#816

Post by cloverich »

andsoitis wrote: post #764
marcus_holmes wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simplest contrast is ChatGPT vs VR right now. OpenAI is up to over a billion of users and hundreds of millions of subscribers in There is no demand for VR outside gaming. Efforts to try and create that demand are failing.

I don't know that comparing ChatGPT (a particular instance of a branch of AI) to the entire category of VR (not a particular instance of a branch of VR) makes too much sense. AI has been around since the 50s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_artificial_intellig... VR has been around since roughly a decade later: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality#History

The apt part of the comparison is, since the 50s the use cases for AI has been obvious and clamored for, and is sufficiently revolutionary its difficult to even imagine all of the use cases, but very easy to imagine some. Its much closer to electricity -- it will likely change just about everything about how we go through life. And most people are keenly aware of that.

... AR / VR may have the same promise. But the implementation is sufficiently far away, that most people look at it and think "Wow, really cool toy. I don't have a use for it right now", and walk away. They'll be back if / when that tipping point arrives, but unlike ChatGPT, its not here, not yet.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#817

Post by saiya-jin »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #640
kumarvvr wrote: post #244

" By contrast, every demo that they showed was a person sitting on a couch by themself." Wait, I thought an Oculus does the same thing too. Its a blindfold on your face, and it doesnt matter if they are alone or in a crowd. Mark has got to be terrified. The power of Apple is the tight and efficient integration of hardware and software. Regarding battery power, I woukd not rule out versions that stream the video and o…

FB should absolutely be in panic mode. They bet everything on VR because they wanted to own an entire ecosystem and not be reliant on Google/Apple. No matter how good Oculus is, Apple will be the VR experience everyone will want to have. Apple will sell it vastly better and make it far more desirable than anything Meta can manage. If I have to strap on an invasive device to my face, what company am I going to trust m…

While I don't disagree completely with what you are saying, the form is lacking... emotional outbursts, ad-hominem attack.

What will be or won't be will only time show, Apple had made flops too but managed to correct their mistakes. Now we have 0 concrete evidence. Let's compare real devices and their usefulness when they are on market, shall we?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#818

Post by hummingly »

trey-jones wrote: post #793
nologic01 wrote: post #393

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

I was talking to my daughter about sort of a tangential issue the other day. I want to say it's related because some of these "better" technologies get pushed onto public schools. Some idiot in her class had managed to completely disable (destroy?) a Smart Board by throwing some tiny object and striking it. I have to admit that I don't actually know exactly what a Smart Board is or exactly what its capabilities are,…

When I was in high school, they installed the first generation of smart boards. The resolution and quality of pen input was quite mediocre. But it solved an actual severe problem for teachers and students. Back then we used sponges to clean boards but this can lead over long period of time to skin diseases. Furthermore, the sound of chalk on a board was torture. An alternative would have been those smooth boards but they get really hard to clean over time and pens seem to be always empty. Lastly, you actually get to the material from previous lessons and can even upload them. I think those smart board need to be iterated on more. If displays are to difficult to repair, maybe e-ink paper might be an option in the future.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#819

Post by pr0zac »

scheeseman486 wrote: post #798
ethbr0 wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are all things you can already do! And big, nice screens are already very cheap. The Vision Pro's problem is that it lets you do something you can already do "some percent better." But "some percent better" isn't what any of the companies pushing this need, because that doesn't translate into the volumes they need to sell. "Fundamentally different" does, but no one has described any use case like that. Examples…

You can't get an IMAX screen for cheap, nor can you easily extend rooms to fit bigger TVs. Often the view from a couch isn't particularly optimal because so many living rooms have been built to accommodate dinky 20" sets of 30 years ago. It's also not easy to take a big screen TV from your living room and mount it to your bedroom ceiling, or watch something out on the balcony. Laptops screens are small not because pe…

> You can't get an IMAX screen for cheap

> What if you could take the 30" display or multimonitor setup

The issue is VR doesn’t provide this either. Yes, it can provide screens the same size or larger, but IMAX currently provides 8K or higher resolution, my three monitors are each 4K, and even the screens in the Vision Pro can’t match that level of detail or fidelity regardless of how big the virtual screens are.

It’s the same reason people didn’t buy gigantic TVs back when the resolution was 480p or lower, bigger alone is not better, especially when combined with the problems you documented.

I say this as someone who uses VR regularly and has bought two headsets so far. I do agree that in the future the tech will probably reach a point it’s able to provide image quality that’s good enough and solve all of its negative factors. It’s also possible the Vision Pro reaches the necessary bar, no one has really tried it yet. But for the normies VR just hasn’t reached a compelling level yet.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#820

Post by pfannkuchen »

nologic01 wrote: post #426
pfannkuchen wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abstractly, we have different devices that stimulate our sensory inputs by mimicking, in an imperfect way, what they receive naturally in the environment. We can make devices that are fixed in space, where you need to orient your sensory inputs around the device. Or, we can make devices that instead are themselves oriented around your sensory inputs. The latter tends to be better for ergonomics and convenience (at le…

The headphone analogy is a good one and maybe sheds some light on the different nature of these "visual" headphones. Headphones are in a sense "additive": they take a channel (auditory) that for a prolonged period of time might be underused while we go on about our lives and utilize it in an unobtrusive way. You can listen to podcasts while doing other stuff. We can optionally upgrade the experience: If you want, you…

With theoretically perfect AR (e.g. AR contact lenses with perfect pass through), it would be better than anything you use a screen for today, because it would be a strict superset of today’s experience.

Imagine using your phone but you don’t have to hold it up to your face, or tilt your head to look at it. You don’t need to sit at a desk, because your work screen is wherever you are.

If you really want the old experience, you could make the contacts emulate a fixed display in space, or on top of a soap bar.

The goggles today are much worse than the theoretically perfect version, but it isn’t clear where the experiential threshold is for “better”.

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