Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#751

Post by curiousllama » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:07 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #739

curiousllama wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch movies, play tabletop games, exercise, play existing video games, visualize interior design, attend a virtual concert, etc etc All of those are use cases, and obvious ones. Your argument is “none of these seem compelling to me” (you’re not pulling) which is fine, but don’t ignore the comment’s point that they could soon be compelling to you (which is why they’re being pushed). This is especially true for networ…

Those are all things you can already do! And big, nice screens are already very cheap. The Vision Pro's problem is that it lets you do something you can already do "some percent better." But "some percent better" isn't what any of the companies pushing this need, because that doesn't translate into the volumes they need to sell. "Fundamentally different" does, but no one has described any use case like that. Examples…

All things can be described as “some percent better”

For what it’s worth, the fitness use case is 0 to 1 because a million people are saying “I didn’t exercise; now I do; Oculus is why”

No fitness > fitness is 0 to 1

In what way was the iPhone “fundamentally different,” by your definition? Its functionality all existed in a blackberry / mp3 player. It was just “some percent better” at everything - especially interaction - that unlocked all the apps we have today, no?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#752

Post by smoldesu » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:07 PM UTC

prawn wrote: post #200

smoldesu wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's easy. Just source the parts. Why is that not a relevant strategy for competing with Apple? Nvidia and arguably AMD could both out-engineer Apple if you're just talking about chips here.

Aren't they talking about the "ease" of competing with a lower-end, non-vertically-integrated device? Same tactic won't work against Apple because they make the key chips, make the hardware, the software, etc. They can have you look at your MacBook, and the headset brings up your laptop's workspace ready to go.

You cannot sell a $3,500 toy with "Handoff". It really is that simple.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#753

Post by detourdog » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:07 PM UTC

calf wrote: post #579

alaskamiller wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spatial computing as an idea is from early 2000s. It was in Wired and sci-fi pulp and something the graybeards would hobnob about. Sometimes it just takes 20 years for an idea to come to fruition.

I wanted to know what Douglas Englebart would think about all this VR stuff, while I was watching the Apple Vision video.

I think he would love the internet access, think the web was stupid, and that Apple Vision is alien technology he dreamed of. He more or less spent his productive years defining the world we currently live in. I take him as man of vision and principal. He would be astounded by the tech and hate the content.

I was greatly disturbed by the product demonstration. After 72 hours I realized that since I work alone there are no real drawbacks to having a hands free computer. (I have been working in a 60'x30' studio that I have equipped with 8MP cameras, shopping for 4k and 8k projectors. The idea is to have the cameras act as an interface and use the projectors to create an image on the floor as feedback. The Vision Pro seems like it might be easier and cheaper. Although not as analog and collaborative.)

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#754

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:08 PM UTC

krger wrote: post #652

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't really live up to the hype, though. It was said that they would replace laptops. While they have their space in the market, sales are in a declining trend, and considerably behind laptops. (I was like you and still am, by the way... I don't find tablets comfortable. I only bought one once, and I think the number of times I actually used it can be counted with both hands).

>It was said that they would replace laptops. By who? The iPad introduction explicitly presented the iPad as a complementary device situated between the smartphone and the laptop.

[deleted]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#755

Post by erichmond » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

Everything about how Meta / Zuck is approaching this is showing how nervous and anxious he is about all of this. From the panic announcement of the Quest 3 before the Vision Pro unveiling to this statement, which, seems weirdly honest.

Calling out "it was a person sitting on a couch by themselves" when that's the ONLY way you can use your Quest 2, given how bad passthrough works. Given their vision of the future is a bunch of people in different parts of the world all using headsets "to be together" vs a future where you are present in the real world at all times, except you have productivity enhancements available.

Look, I'm in awe of both the Quest and Vision Pro for how technologically advanced all of this tech is, and I know Zuck needs to show "strength", but he knows he's in trouble and needs to rethink most of his product strategy going forward.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#756

Post by curiousllama » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

adverbly wrote: post #736

curiousllama wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch movies, play tabletop games, exercise, play existing video games, visualize interior design, attend a virtual concert, etc etc All of those are use cases, and obvious ones. Your argument is “none of these seem compelling to me” (you’re not pulling) which is fine, but don’t ignore the comment’s point that they could soon be compelling to you (which is why they’re being pushed). This is especially true for networ…

> Watch movies, play tabletop games, exercise, play existing video games, visualize interior design, attend a virtual concert, etc etc Literally all of those are possible with your cell phone at slightly lower fidelity. We're not talking about zero to one applications here. Cell phone fundamentally unlocked new applications via mobile connected GPS, computer, camera, screen, accelerometer, internet. Fidelity is not w…

Yea I mean the point is that all of those already existed in other (worse) forms or were added later

Fwiw, I’m a VR bear overall, but the idea that it’s somehow “not new” feels wild to me, like saying ChatGPT isn’t new because we’ve had chatbots for ages. Like, yea man but the preexisting stuff sucked lmao

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#757

Post by locustous » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #630

trotro wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porn. What you're missing is porn. Or generally, anything that's much better experienced directly than through a screen. Think about virtually hiking Mt Everest, diving the Mariana Trench, walking on Mars, etc. The technology certainly isn't there yet, but I can imagine a future where for a majority of the population, especially those with lower income, VR provides the only affordable* escape from reality. * In a few…

Honestly, at what point will you need regulators to step in? It’s pretty clear that we have a little porn addiction epidemic. And there’s increasing evidence of the harmful effects of porn. And that’s happening with the current state of porn - often viewed on small phone screens in less than even HD quality. I can’t imagine what would happen to young people once porn is viewable in a lifelike virtual reality. I can i…

The reality is that the phone is, and will be, the far more dangerous a vector for porn because of how ubiquitous and convenient it is. The wow factor of this device won't move the needle much here, particularly at this price.

Yes, some will use it for this. Porn use is never satisfied so the addicts that are always looking for bigger hits will find some here. But they are already in it's grasp. Very few to nobody will start it on this device, and that is where the primary battle is located.

Kids, on phones, far away from the supervision of their parents.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#758

Post by detourdog » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

Foxhuls wrote: post #123

veidr wrote: post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

I would strongly recommend looking at the results people are achieving with Apple’s game porting toolkit just days after it was released. With the hardware that the vision pro is supposed to have, I seriously think it will be the best gaming headset on the market if the final product ends up living up to what was announced.

Probably true and Apple is smart enough to not talk about the easy stuff or even hype things. The amazing thing is the finger tracking in space.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#759

Post by juve1996 » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

rvz wrote: post #483

juve1996 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Quest 3 will outsell Vision Pro by 10x because of this. Which is perfectly fine and why Apple will eventually win - they don't need to sell a ton of units right now. Apple is going about it the right way, the same way that Tesla did with their electric cars. Eventually there will be a model 3 of the vision pro - and all that R&D they put into making it the best will pay dividends down the line. Meta simply won'…

> Which is perfectly fine and why Apple will eventually win - they don't need to sell a ton of units right now. Eventually, both headsets will be shrunken down into the glasses form-factor, and Meta will be the Android of XR headsets and glasses or in second place overall if users want a cheaper alternative to the Apple Vision product line. Just like what Google had with Android phones, Microsoft had with Windows PCs…

Windows has lost significant market share over the last 10 years. I wouldn't call that a smashing success. In the US iPhone market share has increased and outperformed android recently. Sure, global market and all - but let's be honest, android is cheap, and VR/AR is still a massive luxury - meaning most won't adopt in poorer regions, even if the the meta option is cheaper.

> They have the money to acquire companies specialised in VR and AR just like what Apple has done recently.

Apple builds its own chips, has been designing OSes for decades, building smashing success consumer hardware for decades. They're almost completely vertically integrated. Facebook was an adtech business. Acquiring fledgling startups won't help here.

> Both will succeed. Apple will have the ecosystem lock-in advantage for those who can afford the best experience and Meta will win in quantity and make it much more accessible. Zuck's 7 - 8 year bet on Oculus seemed to be the right move all against lots of naysayers and the exaggerations of Meta's stock collapse which recovered against the news.

It's already at quantity pricing and it hasn't succeeded now - what makes you think it will in the future? Meta's stock collapse didn't happen because its fundamental business is still strong - not because of their VR moonshot.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#760

Post by kaashif » Fri, Jun 09, 2023, 1:10 PM UTC

curiousllama wrote: post #730

adverbly wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The promise of VR is to unlock a world free of the constraints of physics. Where physical distance prevents certain styles of communication and interaction - where physical real estate is finite and therefore rivalrous, etc. There are many things that VR, in principle, could solve... See. You just did the exact same thing that Op is talking about. You didn't describe a single actual use case. You just talked about…

Watch movies, play tabletop games, exercise, play existing video games, visualize interior design, attend a virtual concert, etc etc All of those are use cases, and obvious ones. Your argument is “none of these seem compelling to me” (you’re not pulling) which is fine, but don’t ignore the comment’s point that they could soon be compelling to you (which is why they’re being pushed). This is especially true for networ…

> play tabletop games

I've played hundreds of hours of Tabletop Simulator (a game on Steam, if that's not clear) outside VR and it works great.

Tabletop Simulator also supports VR, I tried it a few times but it really didn't add anything. And honestly using a mouse and keyboard to click on board game pieces, select cards, and so on is far more precise and low effort than grabbing things with my hands.

I game regularly in VR and I believe in it, but not for board games or tabletop games.