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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#551

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

It's really not that difficult, you put the thing on your head and instantly have a three monitor setup whenever and wherever you want. And of course with the right software, you can go past that and use your whole surrounding as your "desktop", watch movies on a virtual IMAX screen, go full virtual realty or whatever else you can imagine.

The problem so far has simply been that none of the existing headsets work for this. Resolution needs to make it past 30 PPD to be usable for text. All the exiting consumer ones are between 10 and 20 PPD.

You also need the right software. SteamVR has basically nothing by default, you get a blurry view of your desktop if you go the menu and that's it. You can enhance it a little with Steam overlay addons, but it's all a crude "make desktop show up in VR", not a "userinterface build for VR". Oculus is a bit better, but still not great. Microsoft tried with WMR Portal to bring the full Windows desktop into VR and it is about the closest thing to what Apple is doing now, but it was still riddled with problems, lots of bugs and limitations that made it impossible to take full advantage of VR (max window size was restricted to 1920x1080, no way to anchor virtual windows to the real world, no real passthrough mode).

What Apple has shown so far look much better than anything else out there. The resolution is good enough that you can actually read text, the passthrough cameras are good enough that you can actually see and interact with the world around you in proper 3D and color and the software seems to be completely focused on making 2D content in a virtual space work well, something none of the other companies spend much effort on.

There is an alternative reality somewhere where VR went the other direction, focus on making it cheap and accessible and focus and producing proper full VR games, basically the original vision behind Oculus. That could have worked, Oculus delivered a couple of great games in the early days of VR and before Facebook joined them, they were even able to produce $300 headsets. But all that got derailed by Facebook, who raised the price to $600, gave up on PC based VR and forced everything on mobile. They also largely gave up on games and focused instead on "Metaverse", which means that the Quest2 games out know, still look a lot worse than what we had 6 seven years ago on CV1 or even DK1. The insane amount of money Meta has spend so far simply doesn't show in the actual product and especially not in the software.

Anyway, since this alternative reality didn't happen, we are now basically stuck waiting for VR headsets to get enough resolution that 2D content becomes enjoyable in them, as that's the only way VR will get content. Native VR content is still just too rare and the quality is often not great. Apple's VisionPro is the first device that crosses that threshold and has the software to go along with it.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#552
post #232
post #157

>could be the vision of the future of computing, but like, it’s not the one that I want. We'll have to wait and see with Vision Pro, but it's already pretty clear that Zuckerberg's vision is not one that anyone wants.

No one wants the Vision Pro. All the progress of mankind has culminated to this one point in time where we can create entirely new realities before our eyes in stunning fidelity. And what do we use this technology for? Going to work. Talking to people about work. Sitting in the dark watching pictures and videos by yourself.

This is not much more different than the first iPhone focusing on what people were already doing daily with their phones and computers: taking phone calls, SMS, e-mail, browsing the web. But now there are hundreds of different other uses, many of which are considered more important than the original ones they focused on.

Getting people to buy a device to do something entirely new (physical games, metaverse, ...) is much harder than getting people to buy a device that does something they're already doing, but better.

That's just a fact of life: people like sitting by themselves in the dark watching movies and TV. They will in the future too. If the Apple Vision Pro is as good or better than a huge TV and surround sound stereo, then for people with smaller apartments it could actually be a good deal. Many people could get by with just an iPhone and the Apple Vision Pro as their only devices (The Vision Pro probably needs a couple of iterations to be good and comfortable enough, but it seems pretty close already)

I'm sure there will be plenty of games and social apps on the app store in the near future. I'm sure it'll get support for third party controllers for such games. But Apple is not focusing on that, just as controller support in iOS and Apple TV isn't a huge focus point for them in the marketing.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#553
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yep .... and Apple has the same problem The fundamental question is what are they really useful for after the novelty wears off. It's not clear to me that Apple has done anything to change that fundamental issue.

People said the same about the first iPhone. Give it time. They shipped basically the foundation. The house has yet to be built.

People also said the same about the apple watch, and from my experience they were right. You use it, then you stop using it after you're bored charging it all the time in addition to all the other devices, for no real benefit.

Yes, i know they're selling a lot of watches, but i only see very few people wearing them.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#554

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

The point you’re missing, and with no fault of your own, is that this isn’t the end goal by any means. You’re right that this type of device will always be a niche market, indeed Apple are targeting just 1M units sold.

If you dig deep enough, you’ll find that the ubiquitous, always-on, socially acceptable form factor is indeed AR in the shape of glasses. As in Google Glasses but with infinitely more utility. The ability to do anything you can now on your phone and more, powered by a localized and shared augmented experience.

> What would be such indicators?

If you agree on the above as the end goal, one clear indicator of success is “how many times did you not take out your phone?”

Of course any expert in the field will tell you we’re 10+ years away from achieving such technology, due in no small part to the physics of optics and displays. But you can imagine the Apple VisionPro shrinking toward this end state.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#555
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we go back in time to the mobile phone era, just before the iphone was released, the mobile market was actually flourishing and very solid If we go further back in time, mobile phones were bricks used only by business people and tech enthusiasts. They didn't have mass market appeal because the technology wasn't there yet. Once devices got to be more powerful, compact and capable, everyone wanted one and the mark…

> If we go further back in time, mobile phones were bricks used only by business people [...] But they were widely used by business people, and I’m assuming that was an important aspect of permeating into the other demographics. To me, what happened with cellphones is similar to what happened with personal computers. It first entered households of people that needed them for work, and as the tech evolved, so did thei…

> But they were widely used by business people, and I’m assuming that was an important aspect of permeating into the other demographics.

Similarly to how VR headsets are used by gamers and tech enthusiasts today. Just like VR for gaming, not everyone was willing to pay exhorbitant prices to lug around a briefcase of a phone, and use it only for poor quality phone calls.

> AR/VR devices are attempting this the other way around: their current use cases seem to be mostly recreational, and we are hoping they will eventually come up with some productivity use cases.

Sure, but the actual current use case doesn't matter. Once the capabilities, price and user experience improve, it will become more appealing to a mass audience.

Think of the iPhone: there were certainly devices that had the same functionality of "an iPod, a phone, and an internet mobile communicator" before it. But Apple saw the right opportunity when the tech got good and cheap enough to vastly improve the user experience and expand the capabilities beyond just a mobile phone. It's what they're good at.

> Someone in this thread talked about how they are surprised that tablets have sort of flopped

But tablets didn't flop. They got merged into 2-in-1s, foldables, "phablets", etc. They've certainly replaced laptops for many users. The only reason productivity is limited on devices like the iPad is because Apple wants to, for whatever reason (possibly to avoid cannibalizing sales of their other products?). But the iPad is still selling well, AFAIK, and many professionals use it. Google and Android never prioritized the tablet form factor, so it understandably lags behind. So productivity is restricted mostly because of software, and the touch interface makes it more suitable for consuming content. If you need to be productive and the software is not a problem, you add a mouse and keyboard, and there's your 2-in-1.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#557
post #504

Maybe it’s just me aging into a different demographic, but my sphere of acquaintances is increasingly reaching peak tech , becoming quite uninterested in (or actively hostile to) further technological mediation of our lives.

Yeah, that’s just aging, unfortunately.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#558
post #546

[flagged]

> Nobody gave a shit about smart phones before the iphone.

2 out of 3 isn't bad, but this is revisionist history, and simply wrong. Nokia dominated the pre-iPhone smartphone market with Symbian phones, which supported 3G for years before the first iPhone, which didn't even have 3G.

And are we assuming that Blackberries aren't "smartphones"? Because I think they probably are.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#559
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't really live up to the hype, though. It was said that they would replace laptops. While they have their space in the market, sales are in a declining trend, and considerably behind laptops. (I was like you and still am, by the way... I don't find tablets comfortable. I only bought one once, and I think the number of times I actually used it can be counted with both hands).

They surely replaced laptops for artists, digital note taking, journalists, travelling and mobile terminals.

[deleted]

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#560

There is something quite remarkable and puzzling about the VR/AR and now SC (spatial computing) space. All major (ad)tech companies are convinced that this is a major market that will materialize and be profitable if the right combination of hardware and software is developed. Their VR "visions" differ but only at the margin. No matter how you execute it, we are talking about people (homo sapiens) putting a major som…

One thing would be you could go to the movies in your lounge, watching a massive screen. That could be cool.
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