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Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

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Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#371

Post by hoorible »

jlokier wrote: post #370
hoorible wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 13” M1 MacBook Pro does not have the pro or Mac chip. Not sure that’s what is being used here, but your assumption that this combination isn’t possible is false.

Thanks for the clarification, I appreciate it. I knew about the 13" M2 MBP (although it seems very easy to forget somehow), but maybe due to marketing materials I encountered, I'd incorrectly thought that product line started with the M2 not the M1.

In fairness the 13” MBP is an entirely forgettable machine that IMO should not exist so I definitely don’t begrudge anyone making mistakes about it!

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#372

Post by BryantD »

musicale wrote: post #311
BryantD wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile gaming and PC gaming are somewhat different markets. In particular, mobile game development companies don't have any choice but to work with Apple and Google, whereas AAA PC gaming companies have another outlet already. I like Apple and I like their products but I think if you talk to any sizable mobile developer they'd be able to tell you stories about the difficulties of working with Apple.

> if you talk to any sizable mobile developer they'd be able to tell you stories about the difficulties of working with Apple If you're a sizable game developer used to working with Sony or Nintendo, how much harder is it to work with Apple? For pure mobile devs, how much harder is it to work with Apple vs. Google, and why? If it isn't worth it, why bother? Android seems to have larger market share. How much higher a…

My experience is somewhat dated so I can’t say if this is still the truth, but Apple used to refuse to tell the very large company I worked at whether or not their new game would be featured before the featuring page was updated. Getting onto the featured page was critical for initial success. And you just didn’t know what to plan for.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#373

Post by BryantD »

WorldMaker wrote: post #241
BryantD wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mobile gaming and PC gaming are somewhat different markets. In particular, mobile game development companies don't have any choice but to work with Apple and Google, whereas AAA PC gaming companies have another outlet already. I like Apple and I like their products but I think if you talk to any sizable mobile developer they'd be able to tell you stories about the difficulties of working with Apple.

Most of the "sizable" mobile developers are entangled in the PC/Console game developers if in no other place than on the broad sheet with one generating revenue to pay for the increasingly expensive other. King is a part of Activision Blizzard (and a part of the pending sale to Microsoft). Zynga is a part of Take-Two (Rockstar/2K). Riot is obviously Riot. A half-dozen others are arms of Tencent in one way or another,…

Sure. But it’s about the distribution platform, not the game company financials. Selling games that must be distributed on specific app stores is very different than selling games which are distributed through multiple channels; in the former case, your distributor has a much stronger effect on your ability to make money.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#374

Post by notSupplied »

madeofpalk wrote: post #173
paulmd wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who's supposed to be impressed by getting middling performance on Death Stranding 4 years after it came out? Literal definition of "also ran". Plenty of people are impressed at 3060/3070 performance in a 25W system-power envelope . You literally can't even run the memory chips for a 3070 in that power budget let alone the whole APU. Like I'd love to see the AMD equivalent APU to that "also-ran 3070 performance" mac…

That's neat and impressive, but that's all they have. They don't have a high end. For $3000 you can get a top end gaming PC. There's no amount of money you can spend on a Mac to equal that. I think you're missing the point that parent (and Siracusa) made - Apple invests a signficant into the software and graphics stack, only to fumble it at the last minute by not having high-end graphics hardware, and caring enough t…

https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/?sort=pct

The most popular GPUs in use TODAY are 1650, 1060, 3060, 2060.

If Apple can get the M2 Macbook Air to run like one of these, it essentially makes the most popular laptop also the equivalent to the most popular gaming rig.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#375

Post by goosedragons »

singhrac wrote: post #367
goosedragons wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of PC laptops let you upgrade at least the SSD. Usually the WiFi card is socketed too and can be swapped out. And it's really not THAT hard to find laptops that still have socketed RAM if you care to. Had you bought a ThinkPad T450 instead of your 2015 MBP, you could have upgraded the RAM, upgraded the SSD with a standard M.2 NVMe drive instead of having to hunt for a compatible one with an adapter…

I suspect we might have to agree to disagree here, but the T450 and 2015 MBP make very different tradeoffs. I might be looking at the wrong model, but I see a 1600x900 screen (while my MBP had a 2560x1600 screen), and (admittedly high quality) plastic case vs aluminum. Immediately before the MBP I owned a Dell XPS laptop that stopped charging ~2 years into ownership. Aren't the processors not upgradeable in either ca…

Obviously there's tradeoffs. Your previous post mentioned that a 2017 MBP is still usable on Ventura and supported until 2025, is a 2017 14nm dual core i5 really a huge leap over a 2015 14nm dual core i5? Which would be more usable the one stuck at 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD and a bit faster CPU or the one upgraded with 16GB RAM (~$40), a $70 1TB SSD and a slower CPU?

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#376

Post by abujazar »

reroute22 wrote: post #352
abujazar wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For $3000 you can get a top end GPU, not a whole gaming PC. Most gamers have mid-range GPUs like those in the M2 Max.

This is wildly false, see https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/143ugg4/comment/j... as a real world example of a gaming PC you can buy right now for $2,600 which is the top of the crop and an absolutely wild gaming machine that's vastly better at gaming than $5,000 M2 Ultra Mac Studio even if the comparisons are done only in games that actually work and work well on the Mac. If you were after a comparable exper…

You’re right and my knowledge was outdated about the prices.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#377

Post by abujazar »

samspenc wrote: post #332
abujazar wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For $3000 you can get a top end GPU, not a whole gaming PC. Most gamers have mid-range GPUs like those in the M2 Max.

Actually you can get NVidia's top consumer GPU today, the RTX 4090, for $1500-1600. Go back one generation and you can get a RTX 3090 for $750 which still packs a punch. So it's quite possible to build a well-performing gaming PC for sub-$2000 with RTX 3090 which is still significantly more performant than Apple's latest Mac, in terms of GPU throughput. I snapped myself a gaming PC for $1300 at last year's Thanksgivi…

Yea, that’s true as of today in the US. There’s no way you could get such a deal where I live (Norway) due to our weak currency, and it used to be the other way around just a few years ago

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#378

Post by throwaway290 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #369
throwaway290 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If power consumption is about the same as M1 Max while running the same game at the same settings the only difference becomes battery life...

If the power consumption is the same and the battery capacity is the same size then the battery life is the same. It's a simple division.

Unless one OS consumes power more efficiently then another, sure...

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#379

Post by dahauns »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #295
dahauns wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without RT it's actually not that demanding. I mean, here's the game on Ultra on a Steam Deck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHeso2jc_L0

Comparison is not fair, game porting toolkit also does X86 -> ARM, so it's missing perf on lot of HW intrinsics Also this is the 1st gen M1, which was released in 2020, I wonder what's the performance like on the newest models?

Hey, you made the claim "not a lot of laptops could run it even on low". I just put that in perspective.

Re: Apple's game porting toolkit is fantastic. Cyberpunk 2077 at Ultra on an M1 MBP

#380

Post by flashback2199 »

spectre3d wrote: post #337
flashback2199 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if Apple dropped the ball or if there is still something of an anti-gaming culture inside Apple since I know that the company was de facto anti-gaming in the late 90s going forward. In that era they actively killed off relationships with gaming companies, e.g. the game that eventually became Halo was originally a Macintosh exclusive. More recent things like the legal theatrics with Epic Games gives one a…

>eventually became Halo Halo was introduced by Steve Jobs at MacWorld as an upcoming Mac game. It was always called Halo. “This is not QuickTime. Everything you’re about to see is being rendered in real time on a Macintosh using OpenGL.” [1] Then Microsoft bought Bungie and made Halo an Xbox-exclusive launch title. [2] > de facto anti-gaming in the late 90s going forward In 1997, the Power Mac 6500 shipped with MechW…

> It was always called Halo.

Oh, I'm so very sorry! I think there was a misunderstanding. I was actually talking about the development of the game and not its public announcement!

Here is the relevant part of the Wikipedia article:

"Days before the Macworld announcement, Blam! still had no permanent title; possible names included The Santa Machine, Solipsis, The Crystal Palace, Hard Vacuum, Star Maker, and Star Shield.[38] Bungie hired a branding firm that came up with the name Covenant, but Bungie artist Paul Russell suggested alternatives, including Halo. Though some did not like the name—likening it to something religious, or a women's shampoo—designer Marcus Lehto said, "it described enough about what our intent was for this universe in a way that created this sense of mystery."[28] On July 21, 1999, during the Macworld Conference & Expo, Jobs announced that Halo would be released for MacOS and Windows simultaneously.[36]"

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo:_Combat_Evolved

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