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Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

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Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#211

Post by bredren »

albert_e wrote: post #160
Laremere wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen anything about controllers that work with the Vision Pro. Lacking those is a nonstarter for a lot of VR gaming.

MKBHD reveiw of the AVP says Apple WILL NOT make controllers for the AVP. That struck me as odd. (Obviously anyone can connect a bluetooth controller and give users some extra control, assuming this device supports open bluetooth for audio etc.) It is one thing for Apple to claim that their latest gadget does not NEED any controllers for basic navigation and selection. Because they invested so much in perfecting a ge…

IIRC, Apple didn’t make a stand to hold the Apple Watch charger either. At least for Series 0.

And, I don’t think they had a stand for the iPhone Magsafe either. Here’s the intro video showing it’s use with just the cable:

https://youtu.be/82po_sYbbio

Both examples strike me as strange since using either without something to keep the charger in place is a joy it setup, possibly worse than trying to keep an 8 pin from falling behind your bed stand again.

Apple doesn’t choose not to make these kinds of things because they aren’t needed. It chooses not to make them to narrow their focus.

Apple had planned to be out of the display market as well.

I believe the Studio display and even the XDR are possibly the result of failing to meet original timelines for Vision.

The company continues to sit out home networking despite the success of AirPort Extreme and generally confusing and messy state of the market.

So it is no surprise to me they wouldn’t be trying to guess at controllers. They are working on a platform.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#212

Post by zer00eyz »

seydor wrote: post #203
tjpnz wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're using it for games, but not Horizon Worlds which is arguably the vision.

That should be taken as a hint that people don't want VR video conferencing which is the target use for Apple's headset. TBH i don't want an avatar face, real faces in a simple Zoom call are more expressive.

I have a vision, external cameras on, on a cal with you where we are looking at hardware.

"Hey Seydor, tab A isn't going into slot B here..." You being able to watch, is gonna be great. You can tell me I'm a moron or that the parts don't work or some combination.

Apple probably has enough of an internal use case with product design, development and production being as long, desperate and demanding.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#213

Post by revskill »

andsoitis wrote: post #77

> “By contrast, every demo that they showed was a person sitting on a couch by themself,” he said of Apple’s WWDC keynote earlier this week. Bullshit. There were many lifestyle video showing people moving around. That was actually worse than sitting on the sofa and being generally stylish.

But the choice of "people sitting on a sofa do their work" is not good. Not everyone has a sofa.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#214

Post by valzam »

impulser_ wrote: post #17
mortify wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a high end Macbook Pro with a matching price tag and additional features. For a device that is aimed at developers and early adopters, it makes sense. In a year I expect to see the Apple Vision Air for less than half the price while the OS evolves.

I highly doubt it, maybe in a few years when cost of the components needed to build a Vision headset decrease. There is a lot of expensive tech in the Vision Pro. You have two processors, 4K eye pieces, expensive sensors, expensive cameras, expensive LIDAR. How are you suppose to build a similar product for half the price? You would have to gut a lot of features and you would end up with a completely different produc…

Arguably a toned-down version would be the true "Pro" device, as a replacement for external screens. No need for

- spatial audio

- the front screen for your eyes (who the hell needs that anyway)

- only need rudimentary hand tracking since you will be mouse and keyboard

- potentially cheaper processor

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#215

Post by throw74775 »

veidr wrote: post #158
throw74775 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s compatible with any Bluetooth controller, but I see no reason it would be a nonstarter. Remember it has full hand tracking. If you want to hold something e.g. a lightsaber or whatever, there is no reason not to. An inert plastic prop should work just fine.

I'm not a huge gamer, aside from fitness games like Thrill of the Fight, but I've tried a bunch of VR games just to see. And there is just no way that a lightsaber game could be good without haptic feedback, in a world where haptic feedback exists. And I think many other kinds of game. YouTube guy MKBHD even called out the lack of haptics in his initial impressions video, not even for a game: the butterfly flew over…

By haptics you mean a buzzer? That doesn’t replicate any kind of real-world experience.

But again - there is no reason gamers can’t have a control, but it’s silly to use a game controller to interact with a computing environment when you can use your hands.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#216

Post by veidr »

atleastoptimal wrote: post #204
veidr wrote: post #101

I use the Quest Pro right now, because my interest in spatial computing (I like Apple's new term so trying to use it, haha) is greater than my misgivings about Meta (even though those are significant). I will buy the Apple thing, too. There are a lot of interesting differences between them (obviously, the biggest one being the price, and deriving from that) but the one I find interesting is Apple's decision not to ha…

"spatial computing" is such a silly marketing phrase. All we saw was 2D windows placed in a fake 3D world. It's all just an aesthetic upgrade, a minor QOL improvement that has its own downsides, nothing more.

Hmm, you think so?

To me, the term just sounds better than "VR" or "AR" without meaning anything different (other than being less specific). There's nothing Apple-exclusive about it; it would apply to existing "VR" or "mixed reality" apps like Horizon Workrooms or Virtual Desktop just as much as to what Apple is doing.

Personally, I feel "spatial computing" sounds clearer and less silly than the previous terms. But, that's just my opinion so I guess we'll see if it catches on...

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#217

Post by EamonnMR »

albert_e wrote: post #160
Laremere wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen anything about controllers that work with the Vision Pro. Lacking those is a nonstarter for a lot of VR gaming.

MKBHD reveiw of the AVP says Apple WILL NOT make controllers for the AVP. That struck me as odd. (Obviously anyone can connect a bluetooth controller and give users some extra control, assuming this device supports open bluetooth for audio etc.) It is one thing for Apple to claim that their latest gadget does not NEED any controllers for basic navigation and selection. Because they invested so much in perfecting a ge…

I've wanted finger guns as an input mechanism since the Kinect disappointed me with its lack of finger gun halo. But the tracking would need to be crazy precise.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#218

Post by seydor »

elhudy wrote: post #187

> The introduction of Apple’s headset marks a major competitive threat. Considering VR headset sales haven’t really hit their tipping point (if there is to be one), Apple’s entry into the market could actually benefit quest sales in a “rising tide lifts all boats” type of way.

I think it already does (expecting Quest sales to soar this quarter).

But both companies forget that people don't use them much. There is no killer app yet. Apple showed horizon worlds in AR - but very few people use VR goggles for that purpose. There is a lot of speculation that apple knows what they are doing here - they don't

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#219

Post by ravst3s »

ceejayoz wrote: post #202
ravst3s wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although these devices will be compared to each other ceaselessly, I think they're targeting two distinct markets. Apple believes that Vision Pro is the future of personal computing. Meta keeps marketing the Quest as social-connected VR gaming device. The former market is far larger and anything that displaces the PC will be transcendental. Although Meta will sell more units in the short-term due to Apple's pricing,…

> people don't want to exercise while gaming Quite a few do. I use Beatsaber, Pistol Whip, and Superhot (more yoga-y than exercise) for this. Boredom during exercise is my primary issue with sustaining it; VR has removed that obstacle.

Sure, some people do, but the majority of people are not looking to exercise while gaming. It's a niche use case. The Wii lost its novelty pretty quickly.

If you're gaming for 3-4 hours, watching a movie, or using the device for productivity you're going to be seated or standing still.

Also, Vision Pro can be a mobile device, albeit for <2 hrs. Imo, Gaming will not be the primary use case for these devices.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg on Apple’s Vision Pro headset

#220

Post by mrbungie »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #207
supermatt wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is beatsaber a meta exclusive? I appreciate lack of motion controllers announced, but that doesn't mean there wont be any, and maybe hand controls are enough for beatsaber?

Meta bought the company that makes BeatSaber so I assume it is at this point. But without controllers and haptic feedback it wouldn’t be very fun anyways.

Assuming Vision Pro has powerful sensors and computer platform, controllers could be dumber and then easier to make (and eventually part of a bigger ecosystem that may extend the Vision Pro with 3rd party hardware).
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