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Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

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Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#51
post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

With your Meta experience I am curious - would the people you had to talk to been in the office near you anyways, even if everyone was in office? It seems like with a huge global company the people who would be hard to get context from (so not the people you might have a video standup with daily or weekly) might be in a different office or building requiring a video call anyways

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#52
post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

My best experiences working remotely—both during the pandemic and with folks in other locations before that—has been with research-oriented work. The reason? We had the time and space to work and communicate the way that made sense to us. We had plenty of shared pair/group sessions to work out design ideas and experiments, iterate on the system, debug trickier issues... etc. Everything else we could do well asynchronously. Since this was longer-term, more speculative work, we didn't have to worry about tickets or product/management breathing down our necks every day.

On the other hand, the projects that suffered the most were the ones where folks had less scope and autonomy. If you can't unilaterally make decisions for anything that spans more than a day, and you're forced into some ticket-oriented process where everyone has "their" task to do, communication naturally suffers. If you're all in the office, there's a bit more slack to talk quickly and informally outside your immediate silo; remotely, this takes more intentionality, so the friction imposed by your culture and process has an outsize effect.

So my conclusion has been, pretty much, the opposite: remote works better when people have real scope, independence and autonomy. If engineers and small teams can make decisions over longer time-frames, they'll have the space to adapt and work effectively. They might need somebody to set the example or foster the right habits, but it's fundamentally healthy and effective. The frictions with remote work come up when it's thrust against a less flexible culture that makes it harder for folks to adapt.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#54
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> PM at google > couldn't afford living in SF

Seriously though, it's a major city with too much single unit family housing. The fact tech exists there is more of an anomaly at this point, our democracy continues to fail us.

I agree, though I think the problem is that they should've never zoned the city such that you have all the residential areas in one spot and all the commercial areas in another. I mean there are residential units in the business areas, but not that many. That's how downtown gets freaky at night.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#55
post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

> implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other.

I have a hard time grasping this one. Is it brainstorming ?

For things like pair programming or specification of a product, having separate screens and independent access to the same documents makes things a lot faster and efficient.

Same way meetings tend to go smoother all participants can access whatever data they need independently from the presenter, and move through the docs at their own pace.

Basically a mix of synchronous communication and access to all needed resources seems to me to perform better than IRL binding of two or more people looking at each other.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#56
post #26
post #14

I attended a HR conference a few months ago with several Fortune 500 company heads of people, etc. Most of the sentiment in the room was that WFH flexibility is valuable but so is collaborative time in office. Some more 'forward-thinking' leaders were all in on remote though it was clear this was the minority. The leaders talked a lot about pressures from other execs on wanting to go back in-office even though they k…

I think it's relatively well known that heads of people/whatever fancy name HR peeps come up with for themselves are generally sociopathic scumbags, so it's not surprising to me that this was the case.

Have you met any of these people? They're quite normal people like you and I. They've climbed the ranks in some cases by spending 20+ years at the same company. The discussions I attended were HR leaders in attendance only aside from myself. I was just popping into breakout rooms and observing. I left with the impression that the HR leaders are genuinely interested in improving the workplace experience. A central topic for instance was "How can I convince my CEO / board that we should allow hybrid / fully remote?". If they were sociopathic scumbags I would instead expect "How can we force employees to come back to the office" discussions.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#57
post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

I might be reading your statements wrong. But it sounds like what you're saying it sounds like is:

* Remote work is better if the management has a common goal and everyone can swim towards it.

* In-person work is better if the management is adversarial or competitive with each other, or doesn't have a common goal to work towards.

In either case, it seems like the problem is management, not the work location. Am I wrong here?

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#58
post #20

After going back and forth between in-person and remote jobs, my conclusion: * Remote work is much better if you know what you're building and "just" need to execute. * In-person is much better if you don't know what you need to build, are trying to "figure it out as you go along", and are relying on the implicit fast feedback loop of standing next to each other. Obvious, right? But I think what I've realize is the d…

Big companies are also ridiculously overstaffed, as Elon Musk proved empirically. And many of them have only one thing that works and ambitions of doing more than will never work out. So there's a lot of wasted talent, in other words, but this ability to waste talent necessitates in person communication, just to make sure everyone is stack ranked according to the current arbitrary and probably mindless goals.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#59
post #49
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never cease to be amazed at the extent to which knowledge workers want to make "replace us with Eastern Europeans/Latin Americans/Indians" as painless a drop in as possible.

If they could have done it 10-20 years ago, they would have and Covid would never have been an issue. Was in a company in the 90's trying to do that with Russian developers, and didn't Sun hire 50 when the wall came down? Paid them in Levis and the like. Outsourcing/offshoring is old news.

They are doing it. Slowly, but surely.

Re: Google uses in-person office attendance as part of employee performance reviews

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious if you've considered that there is a pretty major cost difference between the two options? (at least for the company) Would you conclude that In Person is much better , in excess of the additional costs ?

This doesn't make OP's point invalid. If you are talking about cost, then the only factor here is the market.

>If you are talking about cost, then the only factor here is the market.

Can you please expand? I'm not understanding.

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