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Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

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Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#91
post #73

Switch to Debian. Seems more stable and sane than Ubuntu.

It always was - the initial point of Ubuntu from a technical standpoint (there was some mumbo-jumbo about togetherness & whatnot as well as the technical decisions) was taking Debian but compromising a little on some of Debian's hard rules in favour of newer versions and some other tweaks for friendliness. That is why the initial versions were based on Debian:Testing with bits of Debian:Sid where there were security or stability concerns in that branch (back then Testing could lag a noticeable amount on security updates, compared to both the stable and unstable branches), rather than starting with Debian:Stable.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#92

I've heard a lot of praise for Debian and Ubuntu but the former was regularly kernel-panicking after updates (granted that was 10+ years ago so I am definitely not being up-to-date -- or even fair -- here) and the latter just keeps piling more and more stuff inside itself, defeating the purpose of a Linux box (for me at least; I want something much more minimal than macOS). Not to mention Ubuntu moves more and more s…

Sounds like FreeBSD would suit you best honestly.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#93
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You deal with it by being happy that it doesn't constantly change UI/Interface/Features and break your workflow unexpectedly sometimes. Yes, you don't always have the latest and greatest and if that's a solid requirement, Debian isn't a good choice. But for a stable, not-going-to-change-out-from-under-you point of view, Debian is fantastic. Software you can rely on that's still patched for security issues.

isn't there a testing/"unstable" version that has the latest/greatest? I had heard it was roughly as stable as ubuntu...

unstable is a bit of an odd fit for most purposes. For 6 months leading up to a stable release it is frozen, so few packages are being updated, then for 6 months after a stable release there is a bunch of churn and things can get a bit unstable, and then for about a year it is like running a rolling release, albeit one that isn't as up-to-date as Arch. I feel most people who want up-to-date packages would be better off running Arch or Fedora.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#94
post #35

Just a reminder to everybody, Debian 12 is about to release in 2 days. A few years ago I moved back from Ubuntu to Debian and couldn't be happier.

How do you deal with grossly outdated software on Debian Desktop?

I've been using Debian 11 since after Christmas. Which outdated software am I using? Everything seems just fine as it was on Ubuntu 20.04.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#95
post #92

I've heard a lot of praise for Debian and Ubuntu but the former was regularly kernel-panicking after updates (granted that was 10+ years ago so I am definitely not being up-to-date -- or even fair -- here) and the latter just keeps piling more and more stuff inside itself, defeating the purpose of a Linux box (for me at least; I want something much more minimal than macOS). Not to mention Ubuntu moves more and more s…

Sounds like FreeBSD would suit you best honestly.

Heard that before, I am just worried about hardware support, I have to admit.

I really am not keen on manually downloading and loading kernel drivers. :( And I plan to start installing stuff on fairly random old laptops.

Do you have any extended experience with installing FreeBSD on all sorts of machines?

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#96
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When your browser is shipped via a snap and is 2 versions out of date because the update mechanism sucks and has been failing silently for over a month, it makes a difference. There's my personal anecdote.

why do you install it from snap? I'm using ubuntu and don't install from snap most of the time.

It's the default now.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fedora isn't perfect, but it can go for weeks without updates and then update cleanly reliably, which is not something you typically get with rolling distributions. This makes it well suited for use as a dual booted secondary OS or VM OS.

Anecdata: I've used Arch Linux for several years and it's been probably 3-4 years since I've had any stability issues with it after upgrading. And the last time I did run into problems, it was from bugs in the open source AMD GPU drivers due to how relatively immature they were at the time. Would I use it for a mission critical workstation or server? Probably not. But for daily personal use, it's been completely fine…

> Slightly tangential question: Is there a distro that has a stable "core" (kernel, maybe some userspace libraries) but uses rolling releases for everything else? Ideally, that would probably give you the best of both worlds for a personal machine.

I'm aware this isn't exactly what you were asking for—and with the disclaimer that I spent a lot of years as a Linux desktop user, so I do have a great deal of experience with how that "half" lives, but: this is one of the things that's so nice about MacOS + Homebrew. It's a very stable core (up through and including the graphical environment—after all, if that breaks on a workstation/desktop, that's nearly as bad as the whole OS breaking) that only updates every couple years (and I can ignore the updates a long time without notable consequences) with a very-high-package-count package manager that's rolling-release on top of it, for most of the software I directly use.

I'd love to see a Linux distro that worked that way—I don't think I could go back to doing package management the typical Linux way, on my workstation. I've done rolling-release, I've done everything-stable-and-maybe-some-bodged-in-extra-repositories-for-newer-stuff, and both suck, for my needs, compared to this arrangement. Stable core + rolling applications is great, would be thrilled to see more Linux distros explore that kind of thing.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#98

I read through the comments here and I’m not excited at all about using something other than Ubuntu. Instead I’m solidly confident that macOS as a daily driver is the right choice for a busy developer who doesn’t want to mess with stuff.

> Instead I’m solidly confident that macOS as a daily driver is the right choice for a busy developer who doesn’t want to mess with stuff.

This is true in the way you intend it, but also in a way that you don't.

Yes, macOS "just works" for most stuff--so you don't have to mess with it.

However, if you hit one of those things that does not just work, you can't mess with it so you still don't have to mess with it.

(Yes, I have hit them and they were enough to make me leave the macOS system. USB and Bluetooth are perennial frustrations for me with macOS and there are active threads with dozens of pages of complaints--so it isn't just me.)

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#99
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like FreeBSD would suit you best honestly.

Heard that before, I am just worried about hardware support, I have to admit. I really am not keen on manually downloading and loading kernel drivers. :( And I plan to start installing stuff on fairly random old laptops. Do you have any extended experience with installing FreeBSD on all sorts of machines?

I wouldn't say extended. I've switched to it on a couple of random machines I had (notably never AMD/ATI graphics because I always found their drivers bad even on windows/linux) and it's been fine there, shrug.

Re: Bye Bye Ubuntu, Hello Manjaro. How Did We Get Here?

#100
post #34

Arch Linux is a meme but also a really solid distro. I'm writing this from a 2+ year old Arch install that has had basically 0 stability issues. "Rolling release" gets an undeserved bad reputation in my opinion, and many arch packages aren't as bleeding edge as you'd expect. Compared to Ubuntu where I'd often have major issues in between releases, I don't think I could ever go back.

Arch has been working great for me on both my ancient laptop and my Ryzen PC for ages now. And whenever I do run into a problem or want to learn something new, I've always got the truly excellent Arch Wiki to back me up. Even those running a different distribution will often refer to it to solve a problem.

I expect even greater things from Arch in the future with Valve's use of this distro on the Steam Deck.

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