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Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

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Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#61

Post by kitsunesoba »

dev_tty01 wrote: post #58
kitsunesoba wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All browsers should have a setting that just tells all sites that notifications are enabled but never actually shows them until the user opts in so sites can't present those stupid prompts.

And why attempt to start sending notifications if it is the first time I have visited a site? I don't know the site, I haven't had time to read any of the content. Why would I possibly want to get notifications from a site I know nothing about? Maybe if I visit it several more times in the next week or two, then ask me if I want notifications if you feel you must. Anything else is just annoying and sort of mindless.

Sites likely do this to prey on "yes-click syndrome" where people just blindly mow through prompts to get to whatever it was they came for more quickly.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#62

Post by thx-2718 »

breckenedge wrote: post #57
thx-2718 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um am I not understanding what "Web App" means? "A web application (or web app) is application software that is accessed using a web browser. Web applications are delivered on the World Wide Web to users with an active network connection." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_application

Progressive Web App https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_web_app

Am I missing something there? Appears a browser is still required. i.e. at the moment these don't work with Firefox.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#63

Post by tshell »

tolmasky wrote: post #38
galleywest200 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having tabs would just make it a browser. Your description leads me to believe you want a browser anyways, not a single app experience whatsoever.

It seems weird to have to point this out, but there are many apps that have tabs that are not web browsers. Any sort of document-based app benefits tremendously from tabs, and thus it would be unfortunate to have to lose that feature when making it a Web App. I for example often need a couple Google Docs open at once. I would very much like to have Google Docs as a separate item in my Dock though. However, I don't wa…

Another useful example of this is the Notion desktop app in which they manually created their own tab interface: https://twitter.com/NotionHQ/status/1601291261469548545

I agree that it would be much nicer to have this at the system level.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#64

Post by jonhohle »

jessmartin wrote: post #34

I am unreasonably excited about Safari PWAs on macOS. This is a very good start. Some of my favorite details from the article: > Different from iOS/iPadOS, credentials in cookies are copied over, so if you were logged in when running in the tab, you're logged in when you launch the app. No other storage means apart from cookies are copied. > Same-origin (or in-scope if a manifest exists) links are handled in-app, cro…

> FileSystem API is not supported yet. Nor is drag-and-drop or LaunchHandler

Drag-and-drop as in, not handled any better than current web apps?

As for the other two, I hope they never are. My hope is that this feature is for process isolation for things that may be open all of the time anyway and not have native alternatives: project management tools, social sites, media sites.

I don't want developers to build web apps in place of native and point to "Web Apps". I know I'm fighting an uphill battle, but 10 years later, Electron apps still suck. I'm not interested in making it easier for developers to build crappy desktop apps.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#65

Post by crazygringo »

guessmyname wrote: post #50
jljljl wrote: post #46

Does using Slack as a Safari Web App reduce resource consumption vs the Electron app? This seems like a huge deal if so

> Does using Slack as a Safari Web App reduce resource consumption vs the Electron app? Yes. Yes it does. This is why “native” apps that use the operating system’s default WebView for the corresponding platform run seamlessly compared to apps packaged with Electron. Safari is has much better performance than any other web browser on macOS, and this change will allow users to access those benefits.

Seamlessly? How is Electron not seamless?

Also using Safari is great if your app is Mac-only, but the whole point of Electron is to support Mac and Windows and Linux. And not have to worry about browser quirks and Safari versions and backfills and whatnot.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#66

Post by bobbylarrybobby »

fatfox wrote: post #60
kemayo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, I'm already sick of "let me send you desktop notifications!" popups.

To turn off notification popups, in Safari... 1. Go to Settings 2. Open Websites tab 3. Select General -> Notifications 4. Untick "Allow websites to ask for permission to send notifications" No more notification popups!

Unfortunately many websites send a JS-based notification which can't be blocked before prompting you for the system one. I think the idea is that that can spam the JS one as much as they want, but once you say no to the system one, that's it, they can't prompt with it again.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#68

Post by megaman821 »

jonhohle wrote: post #64
jessmartin wrote: post #34

I am unreasonably excited about Safari PWAs on macOS. This is a very good start. Some of my favorite details from the article: > Different from iOS/iPadOS, credentials in cookies are copied over, so if you were logged in when running in the tab, you're logged in when you launch the app. No other storage means apart from cookies are copied. > Same-origin (or in-scope if a manifest exists) links are handled in-app, cro…

> FileSystem API is not supported yet. Nor is drag-and-drop or LaunchHandler Drag-and-drop as in, not handled any better than current web apps? As for the other two, I hope they never are. My hope is that this feature is for process isolation for things that may be open all of the time anyway and not have native alternatives: project management tools, social sites, media sites. I don't want developers to build web ap…

It is so weird hearing people hope Safari doesn't implement feature X, Y or Z simply so users and developers don't have a choice. If you don't want to use or support something don't, but you have no idea what is best for me.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#69

Post by breckenedge »

thx-2718 wrote: post #62
breckenedge wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Progressive Web App https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_web_app

Am I missing something there? Appears a browser is still required. i.e. at the moment these don't work with Firefox.

Yea a browser is required and is provided by whatever browser was used to install the app. So if you “install” the PWA with Chrome, then Chrome is used to open it. On Mac/Safari 17+, it looks like it’s provided by Web App.app, which is probably just a wrapper for Safari. A separate browser install is not required.

It works in Firefox, not sure why Wikipedia has that wrong.

Re: Web Apps on macOS Sonoma 14 Beta

#70

Post by BackBlast »

jmull wrote: post #49

> Let web apps programmatically trigger the Add to Dock flow, since the Share icon and the File menu install ways are hard to discover. Please, for the sake of all decency, no! We do NOT need new ways for web sites to badger users. (Sorry to focus on this one thing. This was a great and informative article, with 99% good ideas. I just had a visceral reaction to the idea of yet more ways for sites to harass me as a us…

This one isn't particularly abused. It's already available in Chrome and the number of sites that leverage it at all is vanishingly small. No real abuse from it - so far at least.

It does offer a much better user experience than "go search out these obscure menu methods".

Safari might do well offering a "don't badger me" option that just shuts all page based prompts and requests.

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