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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#651

Post by kanbara »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #435
Jochim wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a fan of VR/AR but found Apple's reveal video to be profoundly sad. There's a sense of isolation running through the whole thing. The immediate connection many people made was to Black Mirror. The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. From the children's perspective, instead of their father's face they see a pair of black goggles and rather than their father's…

>The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. "Hold still son so I can record this moment, I've only got 10 minutes out of the 2h of battery left on this headset" lol The mental illnesses kids will have growing up with tech addicted parents are gonna be epic. Therapists are gonna be printing money.

people already film their kids on their phone, take live photos of their dogs, and tiktok/insta themselves in a cool place.

having the ability to share parts of our lives remotely and also remember them is profound. i often look back at photos of the past few years, and remark at memories i've forgotten, places i've been, and i share those things with others as well.

sure no one wants 10 people in a room interacting thru their apple vision pro, but i really don't think it's fundamentally different. and if i could have a 3d video of my deceased family that looks more real than a photo, i'd love that.

look at the parts of the tech that connect us more; there will always be negative things, loners, tech addicts, etc.

and as for the mental illness quip, i honestly don't have an answer because it's so outlandish we can't even begin to quantify it

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#652

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

kanbara wrote: post #651
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The father wearing the headset and recording his children play around him really hit that note. "Hold still son so I can record this moment, I've only got 10 minutes out of the 2h of battery left on this headset" lol The mental illnesses kids will have growing up with tech addicted parents are gonna be epic. Therapists are gonna be printing money.

people already film their kids on their phone, take live photos of their dogs, and tiktok/insta themselves in a cool place. having the ability to share parts of our lives remotely and also remember them is profound. i often look back at photos of the past few years, and remark at memories i've forgotten, places i've been, and i share those things with others as well. sure no one wants 10 people in a room interacting…

You must be fun at parties

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#653

Post by alexvoda »

unusualmonkey wrote: post #647
alexvoda wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, people still go to concerts and will not stop anytime soon. Even if people enjoy music in a variety of ways, people very much still enjoy live music for being live. So it is a bad counter example. Secondly, all of the examples above were examples of trying to avoid reality. A pathological form of escapism. Why push so hard for such a shitty future where escapism is the only option? Black Mirror is a war…

> Secondly, all of the examples above were examples of trying to avoid reality. 1) What makes reality important? 2) What is the definition of reality? > In all VR spaces you will absolutely be the product while also being milked for every single micro-transaction you can pay. How does that differ from reality? Are you not paying for the walls that are presumably around you right now?

I will not dignify your questions with an answer because they are a philosophical derailment. And turning the conversation into one about solipsism and epistemological nihilism is a dead end. Related to this, the simulation hypothesis is nothing but repackaged theism. Many have treaded this territory and nothing of use was discovered.

Besides, I was the one who asked first the much more pragmatic question of why some people consider such a dystopian future to be desirable.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#654

Post by lucubratory »

rocketbop wrote: post #545
lucubratory wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shittier in that my partner's hands and sometimes back are wrecked from a relatively short time using them.

I’m not sure wearing headsets all day and air typing is going to be a lot better ergonomically.

You should look into how the Vision Pro works, it actually doesn't include air typing. You can use a keyboard from traditional to a small one in your lap, if you want to use a virtual keyboard you're not lifting your arms to select letters, and most text entry is voice because STT is good enough now.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#655

Post by manicdee »

nerdbert wrote: post #619
alexvoda wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are enormous advantages to living (as much as possible of) your life in VR: > - your home can be arbitrarily large at zero cost and without taking any land away from anyone else Except it isn't. > - you can change the decor whenever you want at zero cost Except you can't. > - you can paint walls as ornately as you like, at zero cost, immediately, without even any prep work required Except you can't. > - you s…

> Except you can't. Some of these objections sound like saying we're not really listening to music on our phones, I guess because there's not really a band playing, or because of the lossy sound encoding or something. In fact, we _are_ listening to music, in a way that people seem to enjoy and which has been democratized far beyond previous possibilities for listening to music.

More like "we're not really listening to music on our phones for free". These days everything is a subscription. Then games are released where every cosmetic change is paid for, so you can be max level with the best gear but you'll still look like a beginner character because you haven't paid for the cosmetic upgrades to go along with the extra gear you won along the way.

Change the wallpaper in your virtual apartment, huh? You'll absolutely be paying for that. Some people will save money by just coping with the walls being non-stop ads for anti-depressants and pills for erectile dysfunction. Perhaps they'll take their headset off and do everything through command lines. Pity if the headset eventually evolves into implants that pump images and sounds directly into your brain.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#656

Post by cubefox »

ProfessorLayton wrote: post #623
cubefox wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were many such laptops when they were still on Intel.

Yes, and Apple also sold plastic laptops when they were still on Intel. Apple has repeatedly attempted to sell products with a cheaper chassis (iPhone 5C, Plastic Unibody Macbook) yet their customers preferred metal enclosures.

Yes, because they feel more premium, that's their "advantage". A headset which hurts your neck more in the long run could offset this premium feeling.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#657

Post by moi2388 »

manicdee wrote: post #655
nerdbert wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except you can't. Some of these objections sound like saying we're not really listening to music on our phones, I guess because there's not really a band playing, or because of the lossy sound encoding or something. In fact, we _are_ listening to music, in a way that people seem to enjoy and which has been democratized far beyond previous possibilities for listening to music.

More like "we're not really listening to music on our phones for free". These days everything is a subscription. Then games are released where every cosmetic change is paid for, so you can be max level with the best gear but you'll still look like a beginner character because you haven't paid for the cosmetic upgrades to go along with the extra gear you won along the way. Change the wallpaper in your virtual apartmen…

Well I don’t know about you, but if I want a free app to change my wallpaper and there isn’t one I’ll just write one. It’s totally a choice to pay.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#658

Post by alexvoda »

moi2388 wrote: post #657
manicdee wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like "we're not really listening to music on our phones for free". These days everything is a subscription. Then games are released where every cosmetic change is paid for, so you can be max level with the best gear but you'll still look like a beginner character because you haven't paid for the cosmetic upgrades to go along with the extra gear you won along the way. Change the wallpaper in your virtual apartmen…

Well I don’t know about you, but if I want a free app to change my wallpaper and there isn’t one I’ll just write one. It’s totally a choice to pay.

Talking about wallpapers is derailing the conversation. The point was that just as we see the social networks of today and the games of today getting enshitified so will every VR experience get enshitified.

As for writing it yourself, care to talk about the price of the developer account, the approval process, the risk of getting banned, the ever changing API surface, the time you use for all of this, etc. etc.? You are NOT the owner of anything in the "metaverse". You are just allowed the privilege of playing in the platform owners sandbox as long as you pay. When the platform owner will decide it is profitable to exploit users ability to set wallpapers there is nothing you as a user or as a developer on top of the platform will be able to do to counter that.

Here, read this (1) and watch this (2) and tell me you feel confident the same will not happen to any "metaverse".

(1) https://pluralistic.net/2023/01/21/potemkin-ai/#hey-guys

(2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g16heGLKlTA

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#659

Post by prox »

samplatt wrote: post #648
prox wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear that now and then, but looking at the wiki on it, the “criticism” paragraph is only like 3 lines with no real refutation, out of a hefty lengthy article. What’s your motivation for saying that? Personally I am suspect of people say there isn’t common sense. Here is the definition at the top: Common sense (or simply sense) is sound, practical judgment concerning everyday matters, or a basic ability to perceive,…

Well, let's start with some basics. 100% of a farming town/community are going to hold "don't grab an unknown fence, as it might be electric" to be common sense. Yet there's going to be a sizable portion of the planet to whom that WON'T be obvious, and they'll try it. 100% of New Yorkers might know not to park your car overnight in a particular area, yet people new to the city will happily do so not knowing they may…

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I think I might gonna read up a bit more on the topic, it’s quite interesting.

I think my personal stance is more on the idea that there is a lot we share as a species (from words, to symbols and human basics) and that could be grouped as common sense. But perhaps my grasp of english fails me here.

Looking at the etymology it also seemed to stem from “community” , what is common among a community. I would wager things were very common for his peers when Thomas Payne wrote his book “Common Sense” , a world to him that was largely very the same in style and substance.

Perhaps that concept simply can longer apply in a pluralistic global world or in a modern sense like you point out with your examples.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#660

Post by ddalex »

lolinder wrote: post #606
mewpmewp2 wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not looking far enough ahead. In the future people will be in their pods, only connected within virtual reality and everything will feel as if it was real. This allows for much more optimal space and resources management.

Either you left off the "/s" or you're missing their point. Who will be doing the space and resource management? This is not a future where individual consumers have control. This is a future where corporations give consumers enough of an illusion of control that they don't notice how much they've actually given up.

> Who will be doing the space and resource management?

AI, obviously, they are far better and meticulous planners then humans. AI will evolve to maximise shareholder value at all costs.

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