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Notes on Vision Pro

notes.andymatuschak.org

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#641

Post by the_af »

dmonitor wrote: post #639
the_af wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Did you even try to look it up?" I do not need to "look it up", I own and play Superhot on the Oculus for example. What in your knee-jerk reply would you say contributes to the conversation about whether "VR exclusives" are needed for a given platform to succeed? I'm going to help you by providing the context for this conversation (not written by me, but in the initial comment I was replying to), which is: > "The…

exclusive as in “experience that can only be had in VR” something that people will look at and think “I need VR so I can play that”. The closest so far is half-life alyx, but that’s really not cutting it.

Isn't that the same as saying "VR videogames"? Assuming we mean good quality, and not a minimum effort port.

I was really impressed by the Oculus "First Contact" (or whatever the one with the robot is called). I wonder by there are so few games that feel like it.

Beat Saber is pretty cool, but what killed it in my family is that you cannot see what the other person is seeing, so it's a bummer when you're not donning the headset. Unlike with a regular videogame, where you can watch the screen even if you're not playing.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#642

Post by Arn_Thor »

vsnf wrote: post #264
Arn_Thor wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then again.. Siri is all on device. I don’t want to send my voice anywhere

The current voice transcription engine at OpenAI is using Whisper-1[0] which is open source and runnable locally, if you wanted to keep it all on-device. I run it locally for various things and it works pretty damn well. [0] https://github.com/openai/whisper

I have used whisper but it seems very picky about which device it will perform well on ("well" meaning quickly)

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#643

Post by jodrellblank »

TheRealPomax wrote: post #634
jodrellblank wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone can't say "let's wait until people have them for review before speculating" and then describe them as "overpriced" at the same time, those two are mutually exclusive.

They most certainly aren't, given Apple's track record for adding about 200% markup on every single product they've made in the last 20 years. This product is overpriced until proven otherwise even if it does exactly what they claim and it beats the competition by a country mile. If it's not $1000 over an already healthy profit margin, that'd be an Apple first in a very long time.

200% markup compared to what? The price they paid for the stuff? This product is not overpriced until any competitor makes anything like as good, and sells it significantly cheaper (people who pay for branding get value from branding). Which we won't know until ~2024 when this thing goes on sale.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#644

Post by xattt »

ehnto wrote: post #226
xattt wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dystopian future has a bustling physiotherapy and occupational therapy industry.

I can't speak for working in VR but I think us desk jockeys tend to underestimate what other people are doing for work. The lack of movement is what does thought workers in.

I’ve been on both sides of the coin in a role where I was on my feet 12 hours a day.

The aches and pains were there, but just in different spots. Yes my core was stronger, but holy hell were my feet exhausted.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#645

Post by tdehnke »

thewebcount wrote: post #207
smugma wrote: post #139

Reading through his notes, I couldn’t help but think “I don’t know this guy, but it seems like he has spent years thinking deeply about interfaces. Also, he sounds ex-Apple.” It made me smile when I got towards the end and my suspicions were confirmed. Andy’s thoughts were infinitely deeper than anything else I’ve read about the device+interface so far. In particular, I liked his observations that so far it’s mostly…

Reading through it, I was struck by the contrast of how broken the web page was with what the author was saying about UX. The author seems experienced in the field, but the site felt completely broken. I don’t know if it’s a device or browser issue, but reading on my iPad, if I tried to use my right thumb to scroll, the page acted as if I had reached the end of the article, even though it was clear there was more bec…

Reader mode solved that.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#646

Post by hanspeter »

kalleboo wrote: post #88
cubefox wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest Pro has actual VR games and proper VR controllers though. I doubt that such games are possible or probable with eye pointing and finger clicking alone. Apple also didn't include any VR games into their presentation.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

> VR gaming is a flop

But isn't it still the most succesful application of VR?

I don't see another application of VR / AR that will prevent the device eventually gathering dust once novelty has faded. Certainly nothing in the presentation from Apple.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#647

Post by unusualmonkey »

alexvoda wrote: post #626
nerdbert wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except you can't. Some of these objections sound like saying we're not really listening to music on our phones, I guess because there's not really a band playing, or because of the lossy sound encoding or something. In fact, we _are_ listening to music, in a way that people seem to enjoy and which has been democratized far beyond previous possibilities for listening to music.

First of all, people still go to concerts and will not stop anytime soon. Even if people enjoy music in a variety of ways, people very much still enjoy live music for being live. So it is a bad counter example. Secondly, all of the examples above were examples of trying to avoid reality. A pathological form of escapism. Why push so hard for such a shitty future where escapism is the only option? Black Mirror is a war…

> Secondly, all of the examples above were examples of trying to avoid reality.

1) What makes reality important? 2) What is the definition of reality?

> In all VR spaces you will absolutely be the product while also being milked for every single micro-transaction you can pay.

How does that differ from reality? Are you not paying for the walls that are presumably around you right now?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#648

Post by samplatt »

prox wrote: post #274
samplatt wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your other points AT ALL, but given how repeatedly proven that common sense is entirely a fiction, if any argument falls back on it you have to be immediately suspect of it.

I hear that now and then, but looking at the wiki on it, the “criticism” paragraph is only like 3 lines with no real refutation, out of a hefty lengthy article. What’s your motivation for saying that? Personally I am suspect of people say there isn’t common sense. Here is the definition at the top: Common sense (or simply sense) is sound, practical judgment concerning everyday matters, or a basic ability to perceive,…

Well, let's start with some basics.

100% of a farming town/community are going to hold "don't grab an unknown fence, as it might be electric" to be common sense. Yet there's going to be a sizable portion of the planet to whom that WON'T be obvious, and they'll try it.

100% of New Yorkers might know not to park your car overnight in a particular area, yet people new to the city will happily do so not knowing they may be putting themselves or their property in danger.

If you have to put bounds on "common sense", or contextualise it at all, then it isn't common, it's just knowledge shared by a group of people of unknown size.

You say it in your final sentence - "near universal". If it's not universal then what's the point? Where is the magical cutoff point of the population where "common knowledge" is no longer common? 95%? 50%? If so, why?

Such speculation is ludicrous because it's going to change drastically from area to area and change even more so depending one what you're talking about. And if such a definition is so fluid, when you're positing that it is in fact universal, then it's pretty clearly false.

"Common sense" and "common knowledge" are just shortcuts we use so we don't have to explain the entire contents of history in one go to explain one other concept. This is very useful. But relying on it existing _ALL_ the time is the work of a dangerous lunatic that has clearly not encountered a broad enough segment of humanity.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#649

Post by kanbara »

lolinder wrote: post #550
malfist wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it better when we all gathered around the radio?

> gathered around Yes, because by definition this is a shared experience. Phones are isolating because no one knows what you're looking at and it's rather hard to share the small screen even if you want to.

young people definitely gather online. people revel in twitch streams, voice chat on disc, and all sorts of online gaming, video calling, and more. these are still shared experiences although they are not in person.

there is a lot of isolating tech (most social media) but it's also quite cultural-- yes it's global, but america f.e. is largely idealistic and materialistic and it shows.

i don't think the mode of interaction is the issue

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#650

Post by kanbara »

rocketbop wrote: post #438
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll become accepted I'm sure, if it breaks through; could anyone have imagined walking into a living room 30 years ago [0] and seeing everyone hunched over a phone? Or 80 years ago and seeing everyone around a television? I mean I get what you mean, but I also think that some things get normalized in subsequent generations. Our 15 year old and his gf have their phones out at all times, frequently switching to inter…

> could anyone have imagined walking into a living room 30 years ago [0] and seeing everyone hunched over a phone? Or 80 years ago and seeing everyone around a television? True, but is it so different to be hunched over a phone than hunched over a book. You can still just look up and be present. With a headset, well… there isn’t such a parallel. Maybe the Sony Walkman is a better comparison because finally you could…

and apple just showcased how their headset DOES allow for intrusion and awareness of the world around it
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