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Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

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Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#41

Post by carabiner »

nfriend wrote: post #26

Anecdotally, I gave Dvorak a try and became somewhat proficient, but ultimately reverted back to QWERTY for one reason: keyboard shortcuts! Control-C|V|Z are all transformed into either two-handed shortcuts or right-handed shortcuts. In either case, I can't copy/paste while selecting text with the mouse (since I'm right-handed). I now use Colemak ( https://colemak.com/ ) which doesn't have this issue and I'm quite ha…

On Mac, you have the "Dvorak - QWERTY ⌘" layout which retains QWERTY shortcuts.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#42

Post by Faaak »

Switched to dvorak ~10 years ago. The first 2 months were terrible: it took me 40 minutes to write a simple e-mail (no must not write the keys on the keyboard, but have a cheat sheet next to you to train your "muscle memory").

After some time though, in my case around a year, you start reaching your previous speed (in my case qwerty). I didn't gain speed but I gained a lot of muscular comfort. Indeed, you frequently do some weird gestures typing on a qwerty due to the dispositions of the keys. It's much rarer on dvorak and I'm really glad for that.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#43

Post by rgoulter »

lawn wrote: post #32
grog454 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Split keyboards can help with wrist positioning but not finger travel, both of which can contribute to wrist problems.

That's why you should also choose a small keyboard, like one with 34 keys or similar.

For typing alphabetical characters, I'd expect a more significant impact from "adopt Dvorak instead of QWERTY" over "adopt a smaller keyboard".

For reducing strain to access keys like shift/backspace/escape/tab, I think that's where "use keyboard with multiple thumbkeys" would have a benefit, yeah.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#44

Post by WillAdams »

When I was in the Air Force and had to take a typing class (on IBM Selectrics w/ blank keycaps), they had a couple set aside with Dvorak keyboard layouts --- everyone was offered the chance to "type out" on the first day, by typing 50 WPM or faster after adjusting for errors (I did 65).

The instructor noted that while folks often failed when testing on QWERTY, that he had never seen a formally trained Dvorak keyboard typist fail to type out, and that most were well above the average QWERTY speed.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#45

Post by duncan_idaho »

nfriend wrote: post #26

Anecdotally, I gave Dvorak a try and became somewhat proficient, but ultimately reverted back to QWERTY for one reason: keyboard shortcuts! Control-C|V|Z are all transformed into either two-handed shortcuts or right-handed shortcuts. In either case, I can't copy/paste while selecting text with the mouse (since I'm right-handed). I now use Colemak ( https://colemak.com/ ) which doesn't have this issue and I'm quite ha…

I use a TypeMatrix keyboard to get around the moved keyboard shortcut keys for copy paste.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#46

Post by Faaak »

gorjusborg wrote: post #29

I tried and considered switching to dvorak as my main keyboard layout. I didn't stay with it because of two things: 1. The fact I'd have to keep both in my muscle-memory due to swapping onto other people's machines 2. Vim keybindings

> due to swapping onto other people's machines

I find it really easy to switch layouts though (either on linux with a `loadkeys dvorak`, or by quickly going to the menus).

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#47

Post by bhahn »

I was exclusively using Dvorak on my home and work machines for 8 years, but switched back to QWERTY about 5 years ago. I loved the feel of Dvorak -- subjectively more comfortable -- but minor annoyances added up.

1. I didn't practice QWERTY, so when I used someone else's computer, it was always an exercise in re-jogging my memory

2. Having to use one hand/finger to type (don't ask me why :)) on DVORAK was super slow because I had to map manually each key in my brain because I couldn't rely on the letters on the physical key caps

Ultimately I also wasn't typing that much, even as a programmer, so it didn't make a huge difference for me, but I do miss it sometimes.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#48

Post by uticus »

darrylb42 wrote: post #15
api_or_ipa wrote: post #9

As a dvorak user, whatever increase in typing speed is mostly irrelevant, for most of us, our output isn't limited by how fast we can type, but how fast we can think. That being said, a long time ago I took an analysis of one of our code bases, mapped every character onto dvorak and qwerty keyboards to produce heatmaps, and it's startling how much less the fingers have to move on a dvorak keyboard. So if you're lazy,…

Are you able to have all your normal keyboards as dvorak? I have thought about trying to switch. But I use a few different keyboards in my day and it would be a real problem for other people if the keycaps didn't match what was on the keyboard. I also think my fingers would get confused about what letter is where when switching.

Dvorak user for 6+ years. Whereas I was very proficient touch-typing qwerty, that ability was lost when I learned Dvorak. It was too difficult, with too little benefit, to train myself to touch type in both formats. I ended up going all-in on Dvorak.

My keyboard [0] has software that translates from Dvorak to qwerty. So plugging the keyboard into different machines means no change for me, since most do qwerty by default.

When I use laptop keyboard, I do switch to dvorak layout.

Also, I'll mention the most interesting bit for me personally with changing has been in-person software interviews. The interviewer (future boss) gave me quite a look when he saw me start hunt-and-pecking! I should have given him some warning but wasn't thinking about it until I sat down at the keyboard. Fortunately it led to a good conversation, and after taking the few seconds to switch keyboard formats on the test machine I was back to full speed (unnecessarily extra full speed to impress).

> it would be a real problem for other people if the keycaps didn't match...

If you're concerned about other people, use qwerty keycaps and just ignore for yourself. It's also possible to have blank keycaps. I have blanks because they were the only sculpted option at the time for the keyboard I wanted. Along with the ortholinear layout I get some weird looks sometimes, the keyboard is just a blank regular grid of buttons, doesn't really look quite normal.

[0] Ergodox-EZ (old style, not sold anymore) https://ergodox-ez.com/

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#49

Post by gorjusborg »

cxr wrote: post #35
gorjusborg wrote: post #29

I tried and considered switching to dvorak as my main keyboard layout. I didn't stay with it because of two things: 1. The fact I'd have to keep both in my muscle-memory due to swapping onto other people's machines 2. Vim keybindings

Vim is perfectly usable with Dvorak.

Could you elaborate?

My experience was that vim keybindings are tied to characters, not key codes (position).

Insert is 'i', not the key at position of 'i' in QUERTY.

Maybe I was doing it wrong, but Vim, for me, is all about the interface and muscle memory. Having keys move position due to the different keyboard layout was a deal-breaker.

Re: Why the Dvorak keyboard didn't take over the world (2014) [video]

#50

Post by [deleted] »

beeforpork wrote: post #36
nfriend wrote: post #26

Anecdotally, I gave Dvorak a try and became somewhat proficient, but ultimately reverted back to QWERTY for one reason: keyboard shortcuts! Control-C|V|Z are all transformed into either two-handed shortcuts or right-handed shortcuts. In either case, I can't copy/paste while selecting text with the mouse (since I'm right-handed). I now use Colemak ( https://colemak.com/ ) which doesn't have this issue and I'm quite ha…

For Emacs controls, I found that Dvorak is not much of a problem after remapping it a tiny bit: (keyboard-translate ?\C-c ?\C-n) (keyboard-translate ?\C-h ?\C-c)

[deleted]
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