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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#551

Post by Geee »

ukuina wrote: post #336
tsimionescu wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shooting is typically an action you take, not just a matter of the direction you're pointing in - so this fits the model well: the game gets information about motion to swing the camera, and gets the exact position when you press a button, but doesn't get to know exactly what you're looking at if you're not pressing the button. The question will be how easy it is to reconstruct that information from the last exact po…

This doesn't hold true for FPS games. You absolutely need to tell the game where you are aiming so it can draw crosshairs, even for on-rails shooters favored by VR.

There aren't usually any on-screen crosshairs in VR games. You just use the crosshairs that are on the weapon, which is tracked through controllers. I expect there to be trackable controllers available for Vision too. It's also possible to use hand tracking, but that's not optimal.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#552

Post by arbitrary_name »

DrThunder wrote: post #526
jstanley wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

Wow..... I have to completely disagree with you and feel quite sorry that's the way you feel about your life. You sound similar to the Japanse Hikikomori men that I read about. 1. People do not really go into nature to "isolate" themselves. As you said, you can do that in your own house. There's a plethora of reason nature is good for. 2. Everything else you're listing as "advantages" are less equivalents of what can…

I hike for days to get to parts of the wilderness that no one else is in. I do not go to nature to hear or see other people. Gp is spot on with that.

I'm very normal and sociable and well adjusted. But our relationship with our surroundings and each other is changed due to technology. And will continue to evolve.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#553

Post by JohnBooty »

ehnto wrote: post #226
xattt wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dystopian future has a bustling physiotherapy and occupational therapy industry.

I can't speak for working in VR but I think us desk jockeys tend to underestimate what other people are doing for work. The lack of movement is what does thought workers in.

There are of course many jobs that are much more taxing on the body overall than waving one's hands at a Minority Report style computer interface. (I used to work at a restaurant! I've done actual work, I swear!)

However, waving your hands in the air for 8-10 hours a day feels a bit unnatural relative to "actual" physical work. I don't have a real scientific basis for this statement.

But there are some physics at play IMO. In boxing it's generally accepted that a missed punch consumes about twice as much energy as one that connects -- your body must do the work to accelerate your arm, and then it must do a roughly equal amount of work to decelerate it. I think there are some parallels to waving one's hands in the air for 40-50 hours per week relative to "actual" physical labor.

More to the point: MR-style interfaces (at least as typically implemented/depicted) don't really offer tangible advantages to using a good touch pad. They trade tiny finger movements on a trackpad for huge sweeping arm movements that accomplish the same things.

I think if MR-style interfaces had somehow been invented before mice and trackpads, we'd be celebrating mice and trackpads as absolute miracles of efficiency.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#554

Post by dointheatl »

lolinder wrote: post #540
jstanley wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

I would argue that the ancient man living in the woods is absolutely right about cities—a person in a concrete jungle is dangerously isolated from reality. We know the negative effects of too little sunlight, we know the positive effects of exposure to nature. We know the negative environmental effects of the infrastructure that makes the concrete jungle possible, but those effects are invisible to the resident of th…

> Also, it's pretty clear that cities are too large for our social apparatus

Citation needed? Humans have been living in cities for thousands of years.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#555

Post by johncalvinyoung »

TX81Z wrote: post #237
bombcar wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s absolutely horrible- it will go back and modify correct words for whatever forsaken chain it decided it wants. I hate it.

I also have a fairly expansive vocabulary and talk about esoteric technical matters on my phone frequently. As far as I can tell Siri was trained on 8th-grade level text and constantly dumbs down my text and distorts the meaning.

Ugh, so true. I'm both a software developer and an avid reader of literature & philosophy, so my day to day word stream is both extremely varied, and frequently allusive with cryptic phrases and idioms. Not to mention the fact I do actually care about correct punctuation. Autocorrect and voice typing have long since given up on me.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#556

Post by johncalvinyoung »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

If this is the future I do not want to live in it. No VR is ever going to match the actual experience of travelling to a place unlike any you've ever been. No emulated persona is ever going to match looking into a loved one's eyes. I can see the benefits of AR/VR for productivity or for niche consumption, but it could be 'strictly better than current reality' only with the narrowest of cherrypicked definitions. No thanks.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#557

Post by rchaud »

askvictor wrote: post #285
cobertos wrote: post #272

I find it interesting that Microsoft had _so much of this_ 9 years go. I developed with the HoloLens 1 around 2016 and I recall: * Fingers together gesture clicking. * Voice activated menu navigation. It was glitchy/I never used it though. In 2023 these sorts of systems are much better though. * No controllers. It was all gesture based. Opening the start menu required your hand upturned, fingers together then outstre…

This is classic Apple. They're never the first mover; they let others fail, learn from those mistakes, and make a pretty polished product that everyone thinks they created the genre.

Classic is right. That period ended with the iPad reveal almost 15 years ago.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#558

Post by funkykong »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

I can't tell if you're trolling or not...

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#559

Post by peyton »

ukuina wrote: post #338
MBCook wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the hands-on impressions I’ve read it sounds significantly more than twice as good. Five times the price, yeah. Today. This really feels like a product aimed at developers right now not the mass market yet. Which fits. The iPhone took a few years to really take off. The Apple Watch took a few years to really takeoff.

Has Apple ever released a Developer Edition product before?

Yeah the Intel Macs. I think you had to return them?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#560

Post by bombcar »

johncalvinyoung wrote: post #555
TX81Z wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a fairly expansive vocabulary and talk about esoteric technical matters on my phone frequently. As far as I can tell Siri was trained on 8th-grade level text and constantly dumbs down my text and distorts the meaning.

Ugh, so true. I'm both a software developer and an avid reader of literature & philosophy, so my day to day word stream is both extremely varied, and frequently allusive with cryptic phrases and idioms. Not to mention the fact I do actually care about correct punctuation. Autocorrect and voice typing have long since given up on me.

You can help "a little bit" by adding some auto-replacements to the keyboard setup, but it doesn't work very well.

It would be really nice if there was a dictionary you could add technical words to.

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