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Notes on Vision Pro

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#521

Post by MikaEfrat »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #468

Hit me this morning they never showed anyone working with files. Can’t believe after the failed attempts to kill files on iPhone and iPad they’ve learned nothing and still think we can pretend a professional work tool can exist without a proper file system. Not saying it should have desktop icons strewn across your living room, just that the “files siloed in apps transferring via share buttons” iPad model is objectiv…

One of the WWDC developer videos shows the Files app icon around 10 minutes in: https://developer.apple.com/videos/play/wwdc2023/10203/

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#522

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #508
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wearing a VR helmet at a family event is a big NO. I'd rather use a tech that would use footage from multiple cameras in the room, then build a sort of 3D-recording of some moment that I would be able to immerse myself in later, with full freedom of movement and pause-rewind. Of course it would need some tech to fill in the blind zones obscured from cameras, but likely with generative AI and data from before and afte…

> Wearing a VR helmet at a family event is a big NO. Imagine how that scene with the dad filming the kids playing would look if the kids had the Vision goggles on, too.

At that point it'd be easier to host family events in Minecraft or at whatever Minecraft imitation Meta will come up with.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#523

Post by woile »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

I wonder what impacts this might have in mental and physical health of people

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#524

Post by stiltzkin »

kalleboo wrote: post #88
cubefox wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest Pro has actual VR games and proper VR controllers though. I doubt that such games are possible or probable with eye pointing and finger clicking alone. Apple also didn't include any VR games into their presentation.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

Half Lie Alyx is a great game.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#525

Post by throwaway4aday »

dmitrygr wrote: post #147
throwaway4aday wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine developing with the ultimate 10x setup: several files, documentation, and debuggers open at once, with a zen nature background. Or making music, or painting, or even writing a research paper. I used to believe this was the ideal setup, hell I even implemented it with monitors, but since I've integrated LLMs into my development process I find all I need are two side by side windows and now with CopilotX thos…

> but since I've integrated LLMs into my development process I find all I need are two side by side windows This irrelevant for those of us not doing cookie-cutter-been-done-1000000-times-before stuff. In such cases all the LLMs in the world are useless, but many pages of docs open at once are useful. Go tell your LLM to write a ARMv6M assembly MIPS-II emulator. I'll wait. Go on.

I'm sorry that workflow doesn't work for you. Must be hard not getting to use modern tooling. If you care to, maybe try it out for some rubber ducking or inspirational uses, it's not limited to strictly technical things.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#526

Post by DrThunder »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

Wow..... I have to completely disagree with you and feel quite sorry that's the way you feel about your life. You sound similar to the Japanse Hikikomori men that I read about.

1. People do not really go into nature to "isolate" themselves. As you said, you can do that in your own house. There's a plethora of reason nature is good for.

2. Everything else you're listing as "advantages" are less equivalents of what can be done in real life already.

3. Hanging out with friends virtually is no where near the same emotionally or physically. This has been scientifically proven. You NEED to be talking to people in person and interacting with them. Otherwise, you will be emotionally stunted.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#527

Post by WillAdams »

DonaldPShimoda wrote: post #507
jstanley wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

Asimov kind-of wrote about this phenomenon in 1956's "The Naked Sun", the second of his Elijah Bailey series. I won't give plot spoilers, but the main connection is that a group of people on another planet have grown accustomed to virtual holographic "viewing" being the main mode of interacting with other people, while physically being in their presence is deemed unwholesome, embarrassing, or otherwise uncouth, causi…

Also Philip K. Dick in _Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep_

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#528

Post by bee_rider »

Turskarama wrote: post #509
bee_rider wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine putting a CPU as complicated as the M2 in between my eyeballs and the road. It is too big and complicated. I guess we don’t really know what the R1 does. It is hypothetically possible that there’s a failsafe road-eyeball path just goes through that chip, maybe that could be made as reliable as various other critical computers…

It's not as failsafe as glass. I guarantee you Mercedes or Lamborghini would _love_ to have a fully enclosed interior with screens instead of windows, but it's a critical safety feature and anything that makes it less likely to work is just not happening.

We’re basically converging on fully enclosed interiors anyway, just without the VR headset (the pillars for the windows are ridiculous nowadays). Maybe the argument could be made that it’d be safer for everyone (especially pedestrians waiting at crosswalks) if drivers had a headset system.

Getting rid of the windows and making the headset totally necessary seems like riskier proposition though. For the Apple thing on a normal car, the backup option of taking off the headset is always there (assuming sufficient warning can be given before a failure, which is a big assumption, but should be doable).

Drive-by-wire systems exist, so it isn’t as if replacing some normally mechanical steps with electronics is impossible. The electronics just need to be made sufficiently reliable.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#529

Post by layer8 »

niklasrde wrote: post #512
layer8 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the fantasy vision, but I don’t see how it would be achievable within the next 15-20 years given the current technological outlook and considering the energy requirements and the necessary optical workings. It will require major technical breakthroughs that aren’t remotely on the horizon.

That's what people said even after the original iPhone was announced. I think there's a famous interview with the RIM boss who basically said "energy requirements make this design impossible" in 2007, and yet, it actually came out and worked a few months later.

I don’t think the current situation is comparable. You’d need more than an order of magnitude improvement in battery tech. Glasses would have to be less than 50g in total (and that’s on the high side; the sunglasses I happen to own weigh just 14g). Judging from its dimensions, the VP battery pack alone will probably weigh half a pound, and it only lasts two hours. In addition, we have no idea how to implement the required optics for 3D vision in the form factor of reading glasses, and we also have no good idea how to implement display panels that support both transparency and opacity, let alone how to achieve that in combination with those optics.

Of course, miraculous advances can occur, but you can’t just expect them to happen.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#530

Post by sanderjd »

jstanley wrote: post #494
jb1991 wrote: post #315

I use quite a few Apple products every day of the last 10 years, and I’m very impressed with certainly all the technology and reviews and explanations of how this device works and what the user experience will be. However, this is the first Apple device that really makes me pause. All of the marketing material, the WWDC videos, all of it feels very uncomfortable to see all these people isolating themselves in a room…

You're taking a backwards-looking view of this. Imagine if ancient man, living in the woods, saw people of today living in cities. "It feels very uncomfortable seeing all of these people isolating themselves inside buildings". In fact the very opposite is the case. Now, we go into nature to isolate ourselves. In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the g…

> In the future, going into virtual reality will be where you go to interact with others, and you'll take the goggles off to isolate yourself.

This sounds deeply shitty.

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