Earlier quoted context omitted.
ugh ruined by autocorrect s/jacking/cracking
Some engineers are probably of that persuasion too. I'm not going to judge. LOL.
smirking as an engineer myself I can only confirm as much haha.
OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
281–290 of 377 posts
Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
See, now I just think you're gaslighting me. Nouveau has never been more stable, or nearly as performant as official NVIDIA drivers. I've had the exact opposite experience from you on every laptop I've had since Nouveau was released, so we must live in different universes. > Linux clearly was a second class citizen for nvidia And Linux is not even on the radar for Apple. :) Anyway, I think we've exhausted our argumen…
It's not gaslighting: https://nouveau.freedesktop.org/PowerManagement.html Nouveau is an awesome project, but for later cards it's basically a dead project. You can get some features to work, but without proper power management there's no justifiable reason to daily-drive it. The proprietary driver is by no means perfect (particularly for Wayland) but it's the only real option if you own a modern card. > And Linux is…
Claiming that Nouveau is or ever was as stable as the proprietary nvidia drivers feels like gaslighting to me, and I think that's what GP was saying. Nouveau has always been flaky.
Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#283Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Have you looked at all the random drivers in the linux kernel for niche hardware. A ton of that is from one or two hobbyists taking the time to add support. Sure, for _niche_ hardware. When was the last time a GPU driver was added by reverse engineering it? The single Nouveau maintainer was burnt out, last I heard, and the project was never a serious alternative to NVIDIA's closed driver. Kudos to whoever found the…
Nvidia/Nouveau is a good example. I've had a number of laptops with nvidia graphics. For most of that time Nouveau was _more stable_ than the official nvidia drivers. Linux clearly was a second class citizen for nvidia for most of the last 20 years. Maybe go back and rewatch linus' rant about nvidia if you need a reminder about how terrible they have been historically. Nvidia now only sort of cares about linux becaus…
In the same vein I used to consider intel drivers to be the most stable and best for desktop use. Now understand there are many caveats to this statement.
I use a lot of openbsd and you won't be running nvidea drivers on openbsd for love or money. there is nouveau and they are doing amazing work, however, they are also up against a petty, secretive company that appears to hate them. So nvidea is out.
Understandably openbsd gets zero support from the manufactures. So we need an opensource driver and some brave heroic soul to volunteer their time to get it running.
AMD drivers worked well enough and if you want decent 3d acceleration the only real choice. However they tended to crash and 3d acceleration is usually not a priority if using openbsd. Also starting with amdgpu the drivers got big, really big. The amdgpu driver nearly has more code then the rest of the openbsd kernel[1]. it is this big mess of generated code where each card uses a slightly different ISA. I understand why having a stable ISA is not a priority for AMD(it lets them change the card architecture easier) however sometimes i wish it were documented and pinned down. it would certainly make for a more stable driver that is easier to integrate.
And then there is intel, Note that I have not used intel graphics since 2016 so my experience is out of date. but once you got past the first generation of intel graphics the experience was rock solid, the drivers always worked well for me. if asked for the best openbsd experience I would recommend intel every time. However my last few machines have been amd and unfortunately there is no intel graphics add-in card(i looked). My last intel box I had an amd 3d card but I only used it under windows to play games. for work/openbsd I would just use the onboard intel graphics as they were more stable.
Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I just can't justify buying hardware from a company that is so hostile to developers and hackers as nice as it may be. I don't think it's hostile, I think they're just hands-off; they throw the hardware over the fence and say, "if you wanna make use of it, here's our software; if you don't like our software, sorry no docs but you're free to write your own". Which is exactly what's happening. I mean it would be nice…
There's a line somewhere, and I think it's different for every person. For a lot of people, the pricing itself is just outright hostile. 8gb of RAM in a base model Mac is not future-proofed in an age of local AI models, and paying to upgrade it gets expensive, fast. For others the OS is hostile when it unceremoniously drops support for $THING they use, or because it has the gall to show them ads. For others yet, the…
Macbooks are really cheap for what they are, not sure what are you on friend. I would never buy one though, still, they are very impressive and its a shame that they are not free.
Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#286Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two years ago or so I bought a ThinkPad with an AMD Ryzen CPU, there was a lot of hype about them. How Linux laptops were finally competitive, speed, driver, and battery-wise. The machine was quite a bit slower than an M1 Air, would have loud fans during video meetings, and on Linux the battery would typically last 3 hours (6-7 on Windows, yes I did all the usual power optimizations). In S3 sleep it would discharge o…
Was the laptop advertised as supporting Linux, or, if not, did you at least do your research ahead of time to ensure that everything worked properly? Because clearly it didn't, so I expect Linux support was already known to not be in a great place before you bought it. And yes, that sucks. We should have first-class support. It's no wonder macOS gained popularity among developers. But I've been running Linux on lapto…
Was the laptop advertised as supporting Linux, or, if not
Yes, it was Linux-certified.
I've seen how it's changed from barely-working and having to futz with things at every kernel upgrade, to pretty much seamless (and these days I really have little patience for futzing around with things; I want something that works so I can do useful things on it)
Dig up any post from 5, 10 or 15 years ago and Linux users will say literally the same thing.
Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
What ryzen laptop is this that you keep referencing? The negative experiences with the thinkpad are typical of all the intel laptops I have recently used, preloaded OS (including Windows, and to a lesser extent, Linux and MacOS), or not. Whenever I look for an AMD laptop, it has a low resolution (1080p) display, and/or an off-center keyboard/trackpad (or has some other obvious fatal flaw). I'm typing this on an M2 ma…
Its a system76 pangolin (2022) >Whenever I look for an AMD laptop, it has a low resolution (1080p) display, and/or an off-center keyboard/trackpad (or has some other obvious fatal flaw). yup it has both of those. But the screen is only15", and I'm old so it doesn't matter. It not glossy which I really like though. If you love the mac hardware, give Asahi a try. My understanding its the best linux for the M-series mac…
It's interesting how different tolerances are. I couldn't even stand 1080p on 13.3".
And then it needed some fractional scaling factor. Wayland apps worked ok with that scaling (though rendering was perceivably jankier), but some X11 apps would just be blurry. At the time there was no solution for there apps and looking at an extremely blurry CLion all day is no fun. The only solution was to run the whole desktop environment in 1x scaling and use this GNOME option to use larger fonts and widgets. Which worked ok-ish, but many things are sized in a funny way.
I just couldn't tolerate so much brokenness.
(And don't get me started on sharing a screen in Zoom conference calls.)
Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
> depending on a small team of volunteers to resolve all hardware issues in an ecosystem hostile to OSS, which might break at any point Apple decides to do so You are describing how most OSS software has been developed. I don't see how this is any different than early linux when no hardware manufacturers had any interest in supporting it. A lot of the work that the asahi team is doing is just fixing Arm issues in the…
> I don't see how this is any different than early linux when no hardware manufacturers had any interest in supporting it. It's very different. Hardware manufacturers in the 90s were incentivized to support Linux to expand their customer base. A trillion-dollar corporation has no incentive to sell their hardware to a niche of a niche of technical users who are not part of their software ecosystem. Another major diffe…
This feels... fairly ahistorical.
> Hardware manufacturers in the 90s were incentivized to support Linux to expand their customer base.
Outside of some server niches (though even then, mostly not til the noughties), not really. You generally weren't looking at much first-party support at all in the 90s.
> Unsupported hardware in the 90s typically had a much larger customer base and group of hackers willing to spend time adding supporting for it.
This... is really not the case. The M1/2 Macs are _close_ to being one platform with something on the order of a hundred million units out there. Hardware in the 90s was pretty diverse; if you wanted support for your video card, say, there might be twenty chipsets out there, with maybe fifty manufacturers. Later on, there was a fair bit of consolidation, with virtually every computer, say, ending up with pretty much the same sound card chipset, but not in the 90s.
> Apple can decide at any point to make their hardware much more difficult to support. Newer models or firmware updates might break things.
Yeah, again, that _very_ much happened in the 90s.