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Notes on Vision Pro

notes.andymatuschak.org

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Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#171

Post by cascades42 »

dvt wrote: post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

I'm with you. Had the same exact problems, and I returned mine.

Interestingly, the Quest 2 seemed less buggy when I had one.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#172

Post by TX81Z »

Arn_Thor wrote: post #103
TX81Z wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but they’re so far behind even if they 10x Siri they’ve got nothing on OpenAI.

Then again.. Siri is all on device. I don’t want to send my voice anywhere

So is Google’s version and it’s a 100x difference, but agree re OpenAI.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#173

Post by jayd16 »

kalleboo wrote: post #88
cubefox wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Quest Pro has actual VR games and proper VR controllers though. I doubt that such games are possible or probable with eye pointing and finger clicking alone. Apple also didn't include any VR games into their presentation.

VR gaming is a flop. Lots of people bought headsets, played with them for a day and now they're all gathering dust. Apple is right to ignore it.

Games are successful and making millions on the platform. If some people churn out of the experience is that equivalent to it being a flop?

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#174

Post by wahahah »

dvt wrote: post #50

This is a bit of a rant, but I bought a Quest Pro last year, and I feel it was a total waste of money. It's actually embarrassing how much of an unpolished piece of garbage it feels like. Sure, it's fun as a PCVR headset, but as a productivity tool or as a multimedia consuming device, or as a social tool, it completely misses the mark. And I'd say that 80% of its failure can be attributed to bad software. It's buggy,…

I found it notable Apple has this to say about eye tracking under the "Learn more about privacy and security" section:

>Eye input is not shared with Apple, third-party apps, or websites. Only your final selections are transmitted when you tap your fingers together.

Along with this small video: https://www.apple.com/105/media/us/apple-vision-pro/2023/7e2...

Which is great and important for me to see, but I'm unsure how that jives with features such as foveated rendering.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#175

Post by jeremyjh »

dmitrygr wrote: post #147
throwaway4aday wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine developing with the ultimate 10x setup: several files, documentation, and debuggers open at once, with a zen nature background. Or making music, or painting, or even writing a research paper. I used to believe this was the ideal setup, hell I even implemented it with monitors, but since I've integrated LLMs into my development process I find all I need are two side by side windows and now with CopilotX thos…

> but since I've integrated LLMs into my development process I find all I need are two side by side windows This irrelevant for those of us not doing cookie-cutter-been-done-1000000-times-before stuff. In such cases all the LLMs in the world are useless, but many pages of docs open at once are useful. Go tell your LLM to write a ARMv6M assembly MIPS-II emulator. I'll wait. Go on.

Wow, you must feel really important, being you all the time.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#176

Post by throwuwu »

redundantly wrote: post #150
mikenew wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess it was just too obvious to demo. Or is it? Gaming can't be good, because there's no controllers. Even if the hand and eye tracking is absolutely S-tier, you're never getting something like button input from swinging your empty hands around, twitching your fingers. Just the occlusion from the back of your hand would be enough enough for that to be impossible. Fitness might be more doable, but even then I thi…

I hate VR controllers. I'd prefer to play VR games without them. I'd prefer they do hand and eye tracking to determine what I'm doing, like look at a zombie and and go pew pew pew with my finger guns. The only VR headset I've tried that can do hand tracking (Oculus Quest) sucks at it and games there didn't pick up on it as an input at all, as far as I know. However, just because VR controllers won't exist for the App…

That’s a unique take. Especially for guns in VR which feel incredibly natural with a controller that is basically a pistol grip with a trigger. For people really into Pavlov they even sell kits to mount the controllers together into a rifle configuration with attachments for a shoulder strap and buttstock. I’ve never heard of a successful shooter game that uses finger guns.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#177

Post by ElFitz »

JohnBooty wrote: post #82
boppo1 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be SOL on version 1 or 2 but they'll figure it out eventually.

That was my thinking. They don't always nail down accessibility issues right away, but I think they're fairly highly regarded in terms of getting to things eventually. (I say "I think" because I have not actually used their accessibility features) With all of the new paradigms in VisionOS it seems perhaps unavoidable that accessibility features might take some time to catch up. Engineers and designers have to wrap th…

Their accessibility features are quite fascinating.

Sound recognition for example, or Assistive Touch on the watch. Not needing those I have no idea wether or not they’re actually useful, but it sure is impressive and seems well-thought.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#178

Post by charlie0 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #21

But it does put an enormous amount of pressure on the eye tracking. As far as I can tell so far, the role of precise 2D control has been shifted to the eyes. I've got one good eye and one bad eye. The bad eye is legally blind, has an off-center iris and is kind of lazy w.r.t. tracking. I'm extremely curious to know how Vision Pro deals with this. One certainly hopes there's some kind of "single eye" mode; certainly s…

The arm waving is some form of exercise, which is a plus for me.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#179

Post by TX81Z »

macintux wrote: post #79
TX81Z wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not be so sure, mainly because of ecosystem lock. I sincerely doubt a double-digit percentage of Apple employees have touched and android phone or used OpenAI APIs. Big problem with ecosystems is you don’t know what you’re missing.

I don’t use Android or OpenAI APIs, but I’ve been burnt frequently by Siri. You don’t have to use something better to know that it’s pretty bad.

Yes, but you don’t know how bad until you go from daily driving something that works and going back to garbage.

I switch between iPhone and Pixel and Apple/Google products and each has a lot going for it. But leaving Assistant for Siri is downright jarring.

Why Google made the shitshow that is Bard when they could have just iterated on Assistant I’ll never know. Such a solid product.

Re: Notes on Vision Pro

#180

Post by XorNot »

acchow wrote: post #170
jayd16 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eye tracking most certainly sounds like the way to go, relative to hand-waving. I suppose Apple could change my mind but I've never been a fan of eyes as input. Touch typing or any equivalent where you can look at one thing and do another seems impossible now.

I'd wait for the product to actually launch before making such a judgement

Apple don't need you to defend them here. They presented what they presented, and whether we're interested is based on that. It's a legitimate concern and a valid point of discussion.
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