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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

theguardian.com

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Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#541

Post by emmelaich »

zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

My experience with military people is that they all put in an impressive veneer of seriousness and respectability -- but some of them are just as nutty as anyone.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#542

Post by djokkataja »

ftio wrote: post #525

Can someone explain to me how a species that can do one of the following can also do something as mundane as…crash? 1. Travel faster than light 2. Sustain a peaceful, productive, spacefaring civilization over millions of years to travel here 3. Create AI that can do 1 or 2 Am I missing something here? How can both of these facts be plausibly true? These are genuine questions, not snark.

I agree that intuitively it seems to not make sense, but with regard to your specific points, and assuming that there's actually more than a nothingburger behind this whole story:

1. I wouldn't necessarily assume FTL. But even if we assume "arbitrarily technologically advanced," there's no reason to think that any technology will ever have an absolute 0% chance of failure.

2. It only has to be sufficiently peaceful to not wipe itself out.

3. I don't think AI doing things changes either of the previous two points.

What I find harder to believe is that humans would be able to get their hands on a crashed alien craft and keep it.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#543

Post by doctor_radium »

krapp wrote: post #246
crazygringo wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culturally, Godzilla in Japan very much came out of the fear of nuclear weapons and radiation post-Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- a monster awakened and empowered by nuclear weapons [1]. I've never been super clear on what the cultural reason for aliens USA is though. Although I suppose it's different in that Godzilla was an intentional fictional creation, while the fascination with aliens hopes they're actually real. [1]…

There have been reports of aliens, alien crashes and recovery, etc. all over the world[0]. The reason it's primarily seen as an American phenomenon is that the whole culture and mythos originated in the US, first in the late 1940s with the Kenneth Arnold sighting[1] (where the term "flying saucer" originated) and later Close Encounters of the Third Kind and Whitley Streiber's Communion codified the "grey alien/abduct…

And what is considered by some the best UFO photo ever was taken in Costa Rica in 1971:

https://news.co.cr/best-ufo-photo-in-the-world-taken-at-aren...

UFO researcher Leslie Kean obtained a copy directly from the Costa Rican government:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/10/how-the-pentag...

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#544

Post by barbariangrunge »

ftio wrote: post #525

Can someone explain to me how a species that can do one of the following can also do something as mundane as…crash? 1. Travel faster than light 2. Sustain a peaceful, productive, spacefaring civilization over millions of years to travel here 3. Create AI that can do 1 or 2 Am I missing something here? How can both of these facts be plausibly true? These are genuine questions, not snark.

It’s not a fancy alien who crashed. It’s a drone from a fleet of paperclip producing ai swarms. It crash landed here, but 1000 others didn’t crash, and they’re already at work secretly converting the earth to paperclips

The paperclip ai swarm’s origin story: some tech startup from 100 light years away screwed up their ai system and went extinct / got turned into paperclips

The universe is devoid of life because all of it, everywhere, has been converted to paperclips by various civilizations badly tuned ai systems. They don’t send out radio signals because, obviously, they need to grow as strong as possible before meeting other paperclip systems; so their kind of paperclips will win

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#545

Post by emmelaich »

zoogeny wrote: post #332
bragr wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Some small but significant portion of the population is mentally ill, and it seems likely a few would hear a joke ("we keep the alien space ships through that door, I'd show you but I'd have to kill you"), take it way too literally, and it becomes the focus of their mental illness. That seems not only possible but probable given the size the military industrial complex.

> Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Some of his claims, if you believe them, point towards coordinated activities. For example, he claims that an intelligence official, who he had known and worked with for a long time and who he trusted, pulled him aside and confided in him about this project. This intelligence official mentioned a particular project name. He then claims that later a totally different intelligence…

In other words a wacko got trolled or pranked.

Then the troller was embarrassed about how well it worked and told him to never talk about it.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#546

Post by jerf »

hayst4ck wrote: post #480

step 1: Throw shit against the wall step 2: See what sticks step 3: Amplify that messaging step 4: Exercise power through providing spectacle and influencing attention step 5: Pacify with spectacle or agitate differences through amplified narratives to create chaos or division Am I insane for thinking that nation state manipulation of social media narrative is a more likely explanation for the upsurge of UFO/alien re…

It is commonly said extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Much less commonly said, but still true, is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary trust. I do not trust the people saying these things. That I can not 100% guess their motivations for this is not particularly relevant. They have a long history of consistent and large lies. Failing to take that into account when they're making this sort of claim is foolishness.

In fact at this point they're really in a Catch-22... if they really do try to come out with "Yes! Aliens! Really!" then we have the question of, why then were you lying the up to this point then? Because if they are real you've been lying and lying and lying and lying beyond my capacity to express in a single sentence... why should I trust you now, then?

I mean, it isn't that hard to imagine how "alien threat!" will require us to, once again, give them more power. It's absolutely astonishing how no matter what the problem is, the solution is to give them more power.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#547

Post by michaelmrose »

ftio wrote: post #525

Can someone explain to me how a species that can do one of the following can also do something as mundane as…crash? 1. Travel faster than light 2. Sustain a peaceful, productive, spacefaring civilization over millions of years to travel here 3. Create AI that can do 1 or 2 Am I missing something here? How can both of these facts be plausibly true? These are genuine questions, not snark.

If FTL exists there is no reason to believe without knowing specifics that achieving it requires a particular level of improvement over present development. It be technologically behind us along a path not taken or just ahead. There is a fantastic little short story exploring this idea its only a few pages.

https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf

If FTL isn't a factor its not necessary for them to have survived millions of years. Maybe we shall be ready to undertake such journeys in a century and perhaps suitable targets exist only decades journey away.

Lastly even capable humans sometimes make simple stupid mistakes. No reason to hold our neighbors to infinitely high standards. Centuries of progress didn't stop us from losing a space probe because of a failure to convert units properly.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#548

Post by charliea0 »

If the US had an alien space ship, why keep it secret? Seems like it would a globally important discovery and diplomatic / technological credit for the US.

Even if the US were inclined to keep their space ship secret, other countries should be encountering UAPs given that the US sees hundreds per year. Some ground control operator should eventually share an in-focus picture at some point.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#549

Post by everybodyknows »

zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

There's a simple, rational explanation: The man needs to make a living. Lectures, documentaries, a book.

> He left the government in April after a 14-year career in US intelligence.

A government pension requires 20 years IIRC. Grusch is only 36.

The formula: Tell the truth where possible, be vague but suggestive about the rest.

And of course there were secret UFO programs -- if something from Baikonur shows up here, wouldn't it be better if the Kremlin thought it might still remain secret? So sensing, reporting, collecting efforts would be classified.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#550

Post by alchemist1e9 »

catchnear4321 wrote: post #521
hayst4ck wrote: post #480

step 1: Throw shit against the wall step 2: See what sticks step 3: Amplify that messaging step 4: Exercise power through providing spectacle and influencing attention step 5: Pacify with spectacle or agitate differences through amplified narratives to create chaos or division Am I insane for thinking that nation state manipulation of social media narrative is a more likely explanation for the upsurge of UFO/alien re…

you really think a government would do that? just go on the internet and tell lies?

Please add the /s to your comment so nobody accidentally thinks you are serious.
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