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The Wait Until 8th pledge

waituntil8th.org

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Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#231

Post by sokoloff »

geocar wrote: post #230
sokoloff wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. Are you saying that abuse is the only (or even primary) thing that a kid could conceivably complain is immoral or unethical? P -> Q != Q -> P

> Not at all. Then stop changing the subject. We are taking about this distressing statement: > Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics, I would expect the same treatment from my kids when they are grown-ups. which certainly sounds like there isn’t a moral or ethical position their parent could have including abuse . I don’t think anyone thinks the only unethical thing in…

I’ve read your replies upthread and it seems rich to suggest that I’m the one changing the subject.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36210978 Is the post where you appear to have conflated immoral/unethical with abuse and it spiraled from there as people tried to explain that to you.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#232

Post by gnicholas »

jhanschoo wrote: post #148
gnicholas wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. I think this sort of hyperbole is unhelpful. What people are worried about is more mundane: whether the hyperconnectedness will make their kids less happy in the short or long run. There is some evidence that the age of f…

To add a data point regarding early access to internet, I know of a <14yo kid who was learning digital art from yt, using iPad apps to draw, and sharing them on fora, and finding community online when they felt unable to connect with their peers in school. There were negatives to that experience too, and it could have turned out much worse. But completely prohibiting mobile usage is throwing the baby out with the bat…

What you've described doesn't appear to depend on usage of internet-connected mobile devices. The research in this area looks at cellular-connected devices, not just access to a laptop/Chromebook/tablet that requires wifi. Was this kid using a smartphone to engage with these communities? I would think this would be unnecessary, and that s/he could have participated via computer and gotten much of the same value (with fewer issues related to FOMO). But I don't know what the situation was. Can you share more?

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#233

Post by flangola7 »

nunuvit wrote: post #227
flangola7 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you ChatGPT? You are hallucinating.

I'm saying you're not worth talking to. Real people get annoyed at dismissive straw man arguments. You have no interest in understanding, and your lack of understanding doesn't hurt anyone, so we're done here.

I'm not the one making trite paranoid helicopter parents comments. You can't just make up whatever absurd proposition and expect people to believe you.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#234

Post by flangola7 »

larusso wrote: post #98
flangola7 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about adult brains. I was on YouTube and Reddit as a child too, why would I think it would effect them more as a kid and not me? I remember watching Rebecca Black's Friday in middle school on my Samsung Galaxy and shitposting the video on unrelated subreddits until mods banned me. Yeah it was stupid but I don't think it's the end of the world.

Too be fair. As a parent you can only screw up. Either like me trying to control the flow of stupid information or by not giving the kids any control. My decision come from my own experience with my own media usage. I think back in the days there was a natural stop. Like cartoons only aired in the afternoon or on Saturday. There been time slices when one where able to enjoy a specific medium. Hell even stuff like por…

>I think back in the days there was a natural stop. Like cartoons only aired in the afternoon or on Saturday. There been time slices when one where able to enjoy a specific medium. Hell even stuff like porn came in limited doses for normal people. But today? My kids could watch cartoons for the nexts month without a pause.

What you are describing sounds closer to retro 1900s world. I binged plenty of YouTube and porn and Netflix as a kid, and so did almost everyone I know.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#235

Post by clove »

prepend wrote: post #193
SanderNL wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphone social media It's disingenuous to pretend watching some documentary on planets is the same as scrolling on tiktok. These devices have two faces: one is excellent and you can learn a lot from it, the other is pure crystal meth and messed you up. I think delaying the crystal meth part is fine, but delaying access to education feels rather shortsighted.

> It's disingenuous to pretend watching some documentary on planets is the same as scrolling on tiktok. It’s disingenuous to pretend kids are only watching documentaries on planets. Especially when YouTube recommends “boobfest2023” ad a follow up. I removed YouTube from everything but the main tv because everyone my kids were watching something “normal” it went into crazy town of violence, conspiracies, and just gian…

All of this kvetching... You're killing yourself psychologically.

And you're so addicted to YouTube that you'll make all these complaints yet keep it on your main TV? Let me help you:

>And there’s no way in YouTube to fix this. Even “YouTube Kids” ended up in garbage after a few bits.

It's called "YouTube Premium" and removing the channels you don't like from YouTube Kids.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#236

Post by flangola7 »

larusso wrote: post #104
flangola7 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>zombie“ kids walking around only having conversations in little chunks between smartphone breaks As an adult this is me and my friends, I don't see a problem with it. It's not like we're ignoring each other. I'm not sure why everyone is so hostile to kids having internet. I grew up watching YouTube and browsing Reddit on my phone too, that hasn't hurt me any.

My daughter had a friend over and we played a boardgame together. It was impossible to hold the attention of her friend. Every round she needed a nudge that it is again her turn. In between constant tick tock scrolling. Sorry but I‘m wondering what happens to these kids in the future. And how conversations and interactions they‘ll have etc.

>we played a boardgame

How riveting. /s

>It was impossible to hold the attention of her friend. Every round she needed a nudge that it is again her turn.

That is more attention than I would have been able to provide.

>And how conversations and interactions they‘ll have etc.

I'm sure they interact fine with people who don't try to make them pay attention to something they're clearly uninterested in. Who's idea was the boardgame? Let me guess, not the friend.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#237

Post by nunuvit »

flangola7 wrote: post #233
nunuvit wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying you're not worth talking to. Real people get annoyed at dismissive straw man arguments. You have no interest in understanding, and your lack of understanding doesn't hurt anyone, so we're done here.

I'm not the one making trite paranoid helicopter parents comments. You can't just make up whatever absurd proposition and expect people to believe you.

Which negative behavioral outcome and my reason for being concerned is absurd?

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#238

Post by THENATHE »

gnicholas wrote: post #90
elzbardico wrote: post #72

This is the easy way out of the problem, but I am afraid, not the correct one. My kid has had his own tablet since 6, his own PC since 8, and his own cellular since 9. So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. All modern OSes have some sort of parental controls bui…

> So far he hasn't turned into a domestic terrorist, and neither is he selling heroin for crypto on the dark web. Also, he has specific times when he can use his devices аnd limits on how much time. I think this sort of hyperbole is unhelpful. What people are worried about is more mundane: whether the hyperconnectedness will make their kids less happy in the short or long run. There is some evidence that the age of f…

The idea of waiting till a certain threshold is a lot like how Europe doesn’t have the “18-22 binge drinking” problem because they are conditioned to understand alcohol isn’t just a “I’m at a party, gotta get my monthly intake in one night” because they’re around it all the time rather than just once a month at a party.

Early exposure and proper regulation is key, and the hyperboles he used,IMO are very relevant and astute

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#239

Post by debok »

geocar wrote: post #195
sokoloff wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer than your original text that GP cited: > One day, your kids are going to tell you that you are wrong. Totally wrong. Wrong about morality and ethics. Wrong wrong. And you are going to have to believe them, or you will lose access to a part of their life forever.

> If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer... debok are telling me they can have a relationship with someone who is immoral and unethical in their opinion. Are you saying you think abuse isn't immoral or unethical?

> debok are telling me they can have a relationship with someone who is immoral and unethical in their opinion.

I do that all the time. In some cases, like abuse, I consider those people to be my enemies. I consider it moral and ethical to love your enemies. So I have relationships with moral and unethical people without stamping my approval on their actions.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#240

Post by kelipso »

lynx23 wrote: post #84
MattGaiser wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choices which make the most sense depend on the choices of those around you. For example, I always get the laptop all my colleagues use at work because then troubleshooting development problems is easier. If you are the sole kid without a smartphone or without social media in a class, it is very easy to get excluded, as plenty of things will be organized on social media. I don't know how one could have functioned…

Ah, sure, and teachers will accept this and happily go back to the "stoneage" just because some parents-sekt has decided no smart phones anymore? You can not outlaw technology on a social level. Many control freaks would love to, but that doesnt change reality at slightest.

> You can not outlaw technology on a social level.

You sure can. You can ban pretty much anything, you know, if you get enough people to agree. Sure, there will be some outlaws, but who cares, ostracize them, fine them, exile them, send them to jail. Really, the lesson learnt from prohibition should be that the PR campaign wasn't good enough.

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