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The Wait Until 8th pledge

waituntil8th.org

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Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#221

Post by jjav »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #131
npunt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool you, a tech-savvy HN poster, has managed to wield technology to find a high-reward/low-risk way to parent using devices, but perhaps your 'correct' solution may not work in all contexts for all people. Perhaps you just have a kid who has the right temperament to handle devices when young. Perhaps you work few enough hours or have the resources necessary to parent in a way to make this work. Perhaps the ki…

This is the perfect reply. You said it better than I could. This parent has the three "perhaps" and hardly knows it. This is another good example of HN exceptionalism. It is ironic that the Silicon Valley millionaires made rich by the attention addicting apps also work very hard to limit their own children's access and screen time.

> It is ironic that the Silicon Valley millionaires made rich by the attention addicting apps also work very hard to limit their own children's access and screen time.

When people work in or adjacent to the sausage factories, they don't want any of it at home knowing how it's made.

At my Silicon Valley area elementary school, none of the kids have a phone.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#222

Post by cat_plus_plus »

rcme wrote: post #15
cat_plus_plus wrote: post #10

Bah, it's just a tool, and important one for safety and avoiding unnecessary distress. It's up to parents to take care of technological limits and discipline, but it's not not an all or nothing deal. Especially during pandemic, how else were kids supposed to have any connection to peers? And without pandemic, what's wrong with cousins playing Minecraft while many hundreds of miles away from each other.

This is the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument.

Absolutely, it would be stupid to live without a gun in rural Alaska. What if a bear or criminal attacks my family I just stand and throw sticks at them? There are also absolutely environments where either a gun or a smartphone are not worth it, for example a school where everyone is properly supervised, protected by local police and engaged in meaningful learning which does not require a phone.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#223

Post by throwaway2037 »

jjav wrote: post #221
throwaway2037 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the perfect reply. You said it better than I could. This parent has the three "perhaps" and hardly knows it. This is another good example of HN exceptionalism. It is ironic that the Silicon Valley millionaires made rich by the attention addicting apps also work very hard to limit their own children's access and screen time.

> It is ironic that the Silicon Valley millionaires made rich by the attention addicting apps also work very hard to limit their own children's access and screen time. When people work in or adjacent to the sausage factories, they don't want any of it at home knowing how it's made. At my Silicon Valley area elementary school, none of the kids have a phone.

+9000

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#224

Post by devjab »

jxidjhdhdhdhfhf wrote: post #208
jhanschoo wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm personally for banning phones in school, and schools should have e.g. tablets with internet access when the classes call for it, and for supervised access outside. I'm not for what this proposal sets out to do which is to completely eliminate phone access. That is, I'm in agreement with you.

What learning would require a tablet? If you want them to read something online, print it out. If you are teaching them a skill that requires a computer, that would be best done on a desktop machine in a dedicated computer room.

They can be quite handy in trade school where students can take a picture of a manual, or a tool, and have their phones read the manual or instructions out loud to them. You could do so on a laptop, but it's not like there is really room for 30 laptops in a mechanics shop, and it's sort of hard to take a picture of something under a car with it.

For the most part, there isn't a good reason to bring out a smartphone though, but there are some cases where it makes really good sense.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#225

Post by Eisenstein »

cataphract wrote: post #202
prepend wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that’s a bad example because it’s 100 years old and was reversed and, hopefully, is the last time the US does this. There are tons of “virtues” that aren’t resulting in laws- exercise is good, sugar is bad, coke is bad, etc etc Saying we shouldn’t encourage voluntary pledges to help our kids because it might be mandatory is probably not a good idea. The tangible benefit from the pledge seems more likely than…

Easy to find in the context of child rearing. Beating children was common, started being socially stigmatized and finally became considered child abuse. A more recent example: the ban on plastic straws. Lots of restaurants were shunning them before they became illegal in several jurisdictions

I mean, going with your 'it is bad so let's stop doing it' examples, we could add slavery, death penalty for heresy...

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#226

Post by slantedview »

elzbardico wrote: post #116
npunt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool you, a tech-savvy HN poster, has managed to wield technology to find a high-reward/low-risk way to parent using devices, but perhaps your 'correct' solution may not work in all contexts for all people. Perhaps you just have a kid who has the right temperament to handle devices when young. Perhaps you work few enough hours or have the resources necessary to parent in a way to make this work. Perhaps the ki…

well, I am not telling everyone should do the same as me. I just don't want someone telling me that I should not do it. Because that's the final goal of such movements: start with "voluntary pledges", move into social stigmatization of dissidents, capture organizational rule, and then, finally, the law. The same script as the prohibition. It is an inexorable and fairly predictable movement, probably a cultural herita…

> probably a cultural heritage

There's also a cultural heritage of using manufactured fear of top down rules to prevent good things from taking shape.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#227

Post by nunuvit »

flangola7 wrote: post #218
nunuvit wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're obviously not very current on this issue, and you don't have a personal stake in it, either.

Are you ChatGPT? You are hallucinating.

I'm saying you're not worth talking to. Real people get annoyed at dismissive straw man arguments. You have no interest in understanding, and your lack of understanding doesn't hurt anyone, so we're done here.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#228

Post by bobsmooth »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #95
bobsmooth wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I turned out ok. You sure? I was also a young child on the internet and I think it made me an antisocial shut in that wasn't able to relate to his peers.

Have you been screened for autism et al? I used to believe this until I found out I was autistic, which went unnoticed as a kid due to being very wordy, and instead only had my ADHD diagnosed.

I'm not one to blame external factors on my shortcomings.

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#229

Post by scrollaway »

tstrimple wrote: post #217
bruh2 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we talking about the same disorder? The inability to concentrate on thing that don't immediately pique my interest has costed me quite a lot. Had I gotten diagnosed and medicated earlier, I feel like I could have finished my Bachelor's, or keep my last job, or get a driver's license. I was shocked to find out that the concentration capabilities I have while high on Adderall are considered just normal for most peo…

I had a similar experience. I absolutely would not have the career I have today if it wasn't for ADHD driven hyper-focus on things I was curious about. I was lucky enough to be interested in technology and programming. By the time I (barely) graduated high school, I'd become proficient in multiple programming languages. My first "real" job after school wasn't with technology. I was copying microfilm and filming newsp…

It's incredibly heartwarming and validating to read someone whose path is so similar to mine.

If you ever want to chat about it, hit me up (see profile for various contacts).

Re: The Wait Until 8th pledge

#230

Post by geocar »

sokoloff wrote: post #215
geocar wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you meant abuse, you certainly could have been a lot more clearer... debok are telling me they can have a relationship with someone who is immoral and unethical in their opinion. Are you saying you think abuse isn't immoral or unethical?

Not at all. Are you saying that abuse is the only (or even primary) thing that a kid could conceivably complain is immoral or unethical? P -> Q != Q -> P

> Not at all.

Then stop changing the subject. We are taking about this distressing statement:

> Also, I wouldn't cut my parents off for disagreeing with me about morality or ethics, I would expect the same treatment from my kids when they are grown-ups.

which certainly sounds like there isn’t a moral or ethical position their parent could have including abuse.

I don’t think anyone thinks the only unethical thing in the world is abuse, and I cannot imagine what kind of a person you would have to be to think that I would mean that.

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