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US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

theguardian.com

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Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#261

Post by axxto »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #123
bsaul wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would those logical inferences be ? I’m not sure i got your point right

Given the enormity of the universe and the seeming[0] impossibility of FTL travel, plus the complete absence of astronomical observation of extraterrestrial civilization, and the incredibly tiny (on astronomical scales) window of time in which we have data, any other explanation for pretty much any phenomena we care to observe will be more likely than "aliens did it". [0] extremely well supported

Here are some things that were, at some point, long considered to be physically impossible:

-Deep sea exploration

-DNA sequencing and cloning

-Flight

-Long-range electric power

-Microbes

-Organ transplants

-Solar panels

I understand the enormity of the proposition of things such as FTL travel. But just saying "it doesn't have a fit within our current framework of understanding, so it's impossible and a moot point" seems a little...conceited, given all the historical precedents of exactly the opposite becoming true, eventually, given enough public interest.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#262

Post by Georgelemental »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #134
throwanem wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this guy has a career history that implies he isn't just another crackpot spewing theories I love the optimism in assuming that being a crackpot and having a career in intelligence are incompatible!

He could have been driven to crackpottery also. Consider this hypothetical: A person in intelligence knows something you would rather didn't get out, but you suspect there's a chance they will leak it. Maybe they have a personality that leads you to believe they can't in good conscience keep that secret, or maybe you're just callous and paranoid, doesn't really make a difference. One thing you could do is convince th…

I'm pretty sure there are documented, widely-recognized case of this happening. Can't remember the details, but I think it was an amateur radio operator that found a secret broadcasting station, and was thrown off the trail when said station decided to broadcast fake stuff about aliens. And another case where the government needed to test animals for radiation following a nuclear test, so secretly stole them from farms in a way that suggested UFO abduction?

I can't remember where I read/heard this, but sure it is on the internet somewhere.

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#263

Post by tomatotomato37 »

hermitcrab wrote: post #164
thekevan wrote: post #51

Am I missing something or is the only thing that makes this different than so many other "insider" claims is that this guy has a career history that implies he isn't just another crackpot spewing theories? It reads just like so many claims like we have heard in the past, but this time people think the guy is more reliable. It is pretty funny that the one of the people often quoted who backs up Grusch's claims is Jona…

Which is more likely? a) An alien civilization has overcome the massive problems of interstellar travel and is visiting us right now. or b) The people making these claims are wrong. While a) isn't impossible, b) seems so much more likely. Also if they have the technology to cross interstellar space, surely they have the technology not to be detected by us?

Extend that too: a) An alien civilization has overcome the massive problems of interstellar travel and is able to visit in a manner that doesn't create a second sun in the sky

Seriously people underestimate the ludicrous energies involved in near-c travel. Even with engines off at those speeds the interstellar dust undergoing nuclear fusion off your hull will give you away

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#265

Post by xref »

bragr wrote: post #208
zoogeny wrote: post #166

I saw an interview with this guy just yesterday. He didn't see anything himself. His claim is that some people, and he believes them to be trustworthy, confided in him and showed him some documents. So, at best his testimony is hearsay. All of this stuff reeks of some kind of psyop. My belief is that for some reason, the US government used psychology tests to identify a select few people who naturally "want to believ…

Why does it have to be a conspiracy? Some small but significant portion of the population is mentally ill, and it seems likely a few would hear a joke ("we keep the alien space ships through that door, I'd show you but I'd have to kill you"), take it way too literally, and it becomes the focus of their mental illness. That seems not only possible but probable given the size the military industrial complex.

> likely few would hear a joke… take it way too literally…

This is the premise of about half of I Think You Should Leave skits

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#266

Post by orwin »

soVeryTired wrote: post #211
misterprime wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beefman, could you tell us more about how you know this?

The Drake equation? We can see the stars, we can see the planets (and there are lots of them). We can infer the number of earth-like planets. So where's all the intelligent life?

Does the drake equation takes into account the timeline earth-like planet have to be inhabitable to carbon-based lifeforms?

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#267

Post by rngname22 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #123
bsaul wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would those logical inferences be ? I’m not sure i got your point right

Given the enormity of the universe and the seeming[0] impossibility of FTL travel, plus the complete absence of astronomical observation of extraterrestrial civilization, and the incredibly tiny (on astronomical scales) window of time in which we have data, any other explanation for pretty much any phenomena we care to observe will be more likely than "aliens did it". [0] extremely well supported

Even if we pretended aliens wouldn't be able to surpass FTL, Von Neumann probes only take half a million years to spread across an entire galaxy, which is a grain of sand of time in cosmological timescales.

"Let's take a look at one of John von Neumann's most fascinating contributions to science: the Von Neumann probe. Simply put, a Von Neumann probe is a self-replicating device that could, one day, be used to explore every facet of the Milky Way in a relatively small window of time.

The general idea is to build a device out of materials that are readily available and easily accessible out in space, like on rocky planets or small moons. Once it finds a suitable destination, it lands and mines the material it needs to build even more devices, which, in turn, land on other planets and moons and build even more.

The system is very effective, and by some estimates, it would take around half a million years to dispatch millions of probes across our galaxy, assuming each one travels at approximately 1/10th the speed of light, or 18,640 miles (30,000 km) per second (though the real number could be closer to ten million years, which is still no time at all in the grand scheme of things)."

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#268

Post by fintechie »

nessbot wrote: post #264
fintechie wrote: post #254

Global IQ getting lower at an alarming pace.

Since IQ is designed to be a normal distribution, isn't the average IQ the same (100) year after year?

We've probably peaked in the western side of the world...

https://phys.org/news/2023-03-online-iq-scores-century.html

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#269

Post by jredwards »

spywaregorilla wrote: post #203
jredwards wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord" argument that religious people use regarding Jesus. Let's not railroad the options, here. There's room for nuance (like combinations or, frankly, just misunderstandings).

what kind of nuanced compromise exists that does not paint jesus as a liar, lunatic, or lord exclusively?

That he believed a falsehood? Does that make him a lunatic? Would that not necessarily make billions of people lunatics?

Re: US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicles

#270

Post by paulddraper »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #263
hermitcrab wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is more likely? a) An alien civilization has overcome the massive problems of interstellar travel and is visiting us right now. or b) The people making these claims are wrong. While a) isn't impossible, b) seems so much more likely. Also if they have the technology to cross interstellar space, surely they have the technology not to be detected by us?

Extend that too: a) An alien civilization has overcome the massive problems of interstellar travel and is able to visit in a manner that doesn't create a second sun in the sky Seriously people underestimate the ludicrous energies involved in near-c travel. Even with engines off at those speeds the interstellar dust undergoing nuclear fusion off your hull will give you away

But what if it's 0.5c travel?

That's a massive difference from 0.99c travel

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