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OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

asahilinux.org

181–190 of 377 posts

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Apple need to contribute to this work to make it somehow legitimate or good? I own some nice hardware (an m2-air), I want to run Linux on it. Asahi allows me to do that! Why can we not celebrate that the asahi team is bringing oss to new hardware?

They don't need to. I keep seeing that Apple does no less than other companies w/ regard to Linux. Well- where are their kernel contributions then? Lenovo and Dell (my two laptop manufacturers) contribute. https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/rafael/linux...

They also don't need to contribute to the Linux kernel. Why would they? They don't support Linux on their hardware in any official capacity, otherwise projects like Asahi wouldn't need to exist.

And playing devil's advocate, Apple has open sourced their macOS and iOS kernels, and has some open source presence[1]. None of their contributions are crucial parts of their business, of course.

[1]: https://opensource.apple.com/

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#182
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why not just buy a Linux laptop Please tell me where is it because I will buy it instantly, and I’m only half kidding. I don’t see how making linux available on possibly the currently available best laptop hardware any different to the previous decades of hacking a working wifi driver into the kernel. It was always an uphill battle, and we should be thankful for those who take up the hard work!

> Please tell me where is it because I will buy it instantly, and I’m only half kidding. System76? Star Labs? Purism? HP Dev One?

System76 doesn't ship reasonable screens (they are all 144Hz 1080p):

https://system76.com/laptops-ultraportables https://system76.com/laptops-powerful

The only exception is the Bonobo, but it comes with a discrete GPU, so its battery life + weight are going to suck. Also, its keyboard is off center.

Most of the star labs machines have low resolution displays, but I can find nothing wrong with this one. If you choose AMD, a reasonable config is $2600, which is comparable to Apple. However, they are only building 10,000 units, and taking preorders, so it might be unobtainable:

https://us.starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter

The purism offering seems OK except that it is a 10th generation intel, and those were extremely bad, even by recent intel standards. Maybe they'll get an AMD refresh out the door with the same ergonomics.

The HP has an off-centered keyboard and trackpad and a 1080p display.

So, of those four vendors, there's one model that's vaguely competitive, but it's a limited production run pre-order.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#183

Is the desktop GPU-rendered by this point? What's battery life like (for those using Asahi daily)? Thinking about taking the dive...

It appears so.

From last December:

> "This release features work-in-progress OpenGL 2.1 and OpenGL ES 2.0 support for all current Apple M-series systems. That’s enough for hardware acceleration with desktop environments, like GNOME and KDE."

https://asahilinux.org/2022/12/gpu-drivers-now-in-asahi-linu...

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#184
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My laptop can use TPM and a hardware key with my keys and free software. Where is the degraded security?

I could trick you into adding a hardware key, then install a tampered version of Windows with it. (Also, the last time I looked, TPM keys could be grabbed with ~ $100 of hardware, but I think that's fixed by some newer standard.) But, yeah, it's not a big tradeoff in practice. I think their point was that Apple had to expend effort to enable the use case, which isn't "hostile" toward the use case.

> I could trick you into adding a hardware key, then install a tampered version of Windows with it.

There are other issues as well.

For instance, on a PC the security settings are applied per machine and not per partition, so you can't mix an unsigned OS on one partition with full security on another partition.

Also:

> On Wednesday, researchers at security firm ESET presented a deep-dive analysis of the world’s first in-the-wild UEFI bootkit that bypasses Secure Boot on fully updated UEFI systems running fully updated versions of Windows 10 and 11.

Despite Microsoft releasing new patched software, the vulnerable signed binaries have yet to be added to the UEFI revocation list that flags boot files that should no longer be trusted.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/03/unkil...

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#185
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple cannot come out and officially support another operating system of course Apple officially supported running Windows on Macs for many years.

You can still do so with VMs, officially endorsed. But Bootcamp is RIP. Asahi Linux is not a VM, so not a fair comparison.

I wasn't comparing. I was refuting your assertion.

What has changed that prevents Apple from officially endorsing another OS nowadays when it clearly was able to do so in the past?

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#186
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see how this is any different than early linux when no hardware manufacturers had any interest in supporting it. It's very different. Hardware manufacturers in the 90s were incentivized to support Linux to expand their customer base. A trillion-dollar corporation has no incentive to sell their hardware to a niche of a niche of technical users who are not part of their software ecosystem. Another major diffe…

> Hardware manufacturers in the 90s were incentivized to support Linux to expand their customer base. That is not an accurate description of linux support by hardware manufactures from that time period. > Unsupported hardware in the 90s typically had a much larger customer base and group of hackers willing to spend time adding supporting for it. I also don't think this is generally correct. Have you looked at all the…

> Have you looked at all the random drivers in the linux kernel for niche hardware. A ton of that is from one or two hobbyists taking the time to add support.

Sure, for _niche_ hardware. When was the last time a GPU driver was added by reverse engineering it? The single Nouveau maintainer was burnt out, last I heard, and the project was never a serious alternative to NVIDIA's closed driver. Kudos to whoever found the energy to contribute to it, but these projects usually don't have a bright future.

Now expand that to include maintaining all Apple devices, and it's an insane amount of effort realistically unsustainable for any group of volunteers. But good luck to the Asahi team.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#187
post #13

Related: does anyone do development on a Mac in a Linux VM? If my dockers are already running in a VM, why not go to the next logical step?

I'm using a multipass docker setup. It is faster than my previous setup, but when running make -j from inside the container top says that only 1 of 8 CPUs is getting scheduled to userspace at a time.

Also, the bind mount of the external MacOS directory is extremely slow. I do out of tree builds so that the builds land in ext4.

I haven't gone the next logical step because (1) it is plenty fast for rust development, and battery life is fine, and (2) I'd like webcam and speaker support.

Also, I just checked, and I have a 2023 model, and the installer status is "WIP", so I guess I'll be waiting a bit longer.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I keep seeing that Apple does no less than other companies w/ regard to Linux. Where did I make that claim in this thread?

> in an ecosystem hostile to OSS > You are describing how most OSS software has been developed. Nope. Disagree here

Cool, thats a different claim than what you said above but at least one I can actually engage with.

I've run linux on many Dell and Lenovo systems over the last 25 years. Most of those systems were fully unsupported by the manufactures for anything but windows. And yet, random people on the internet contributed to make that hardware (mostly) work. I've not seen any particular improvement in the driver situation since Dell started selling linux certified systems.

Its not really surprising though, Dell is just an integrator. All they do for their systems with linux pre-installed is to pick hardware that already has drivers. They took a little bit of work out of needing to research if a given configuration is likely to work or not with linux (which is good). They don't really deserve much credit beyond that.

Its also a little funny because most drivers from hardware manufacturers suck. I don't know why, but most hardware companies are terrible at writing software. Its easy to list off hardware companies that have a long history of shipping mediocre, buggy linux drivers: nvidia, amd, broadcom, realtek, (maybe i should just list every nic and wireless chipset manufacturer). Some of these companies have gotten better and have learned how to be good kernel contributors, but they were mostly bad for years and years. Thankfully in some of those cases random people on the internet reverse engineered the hardware and contributed from scratch drivers to the kernel. Most of the time I've been happier with the experience of running those from scratch drivers than what hardware manufactures ship.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#189

Is the desktop GPU-rendered by this point? What's battery life like (for those using Asahi daily)? Thinking about taking the dive...

It is GPU accelerated and very smooth since late last year. Battery life is about 6-8 hours on an M1 air for me, and should improve significantly with this latest upgrade (haven't measured yet).

The installation experience is very smooth, so it's very easy to try it out. You can nuke it afterwards if it doesn't work for you.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#190
post #3

Its been more than a year I'm running asahi on my macbook air and I can't stress how grateful I feel for enjoying such wonderful freedom. I don't feel like ever going back to x86 to be honest, at this point there is nothing lacking or unable to run and when the neural engine drivers come online now that the GPU is starting to mature people will be able to juice out every last bit of computation this machine is capabl…

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