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"It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

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Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#221

Post by ta12121 »

jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

The Leaf's range is pathetic compared to the Tesla's. And that makes it much less practical for anyone who only owns one car.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#222

Post by [deleted] »

bane wrote: post #144
jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

I think you and Tesla are not having the same conversation. They are doing it The Wrong Way if the conversation is efficient commuter/city cars. But tanks are doing it The Wrong Way if you're talking about space launch vehicles too. Tesla doesn't market or really care about efficiency -- and Tesla buyers don't really care about efficiency (or at least not as their #1 priority, if they did there are plenty of high eff…

[deleted]

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#223

Post by [deleted] »

sopooneo wrote: post #204
SeanLuke wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Completely disagree. Tesla is, I think, unquestionably the most impactful company in the game, including GE and Nissan. For two reasons. First, before Tesla people thought of electric vehicles as ridiculous DIY golf carts driven by treehuggers. They were utterly uncool and stupid. P…

Using up all our fossil fuels and leaving the world a crisp wasteland is one thing, but using the word "impactful" is another. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=impactful

[deleted]

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#224

Post by SeanLuke »

sopooneo wrote: post #204
SeanLuke wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Completely disagree. Tesla is, I think, unquestionably the most impactful company in the game, including GE and Nissan. For two reasons. First, before Tesla people thought of electric vehicles as ridiculous DIY golf carts driven by treehuggers. They were utterly uncool and stupid. P…

Using up all our fossil fuels and leaving the world a crisp wasteland is one thing, but using the word "impactful" is another. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=impactful

I know, I know. I wasn't proactive enough.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#225

Post by sek »

cube13 wrote: post #218
krschultz wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you can answer nearly every post like the OP's with "Go read The Innovator's Dilemma and then come back and talk about what metrics this disruptive company is competiting on rather than talking about the old metrics of the industry". Every one of them is making the argument that hard drive makers made each time a newer size came out, except with miles of range instead of Gigabytes.

The model S is somewhat disruptive. It's closer to almost affordable(around $50,000 base price after US tax breaks) than the Roadster(which was $109,000 base). Very few people could afford roadsters. More people can afford Model S', but it's still out of reach for the vast majority. I would argue that the Nisan Leaf is MUCH more of a disruptive force, because it's relatively affordable(starts at $27,700), and is avai…

This is so funny, did you even read the post you responded to?

You make the same mistake, you think in a feature spreadsheet category. Efficiency, Luxury, Price and Power.

In these categories was the first iPhone a joke and every competitor made fun of it.

Get the book and then you understand why many people here are talking about Tesla and not Nissan.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#226

Post by lotharbot »

potatolicious wrote: post #132
pclark wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point OP is making is that these SUV people fundamentally do not care about efficiency - if they do not care, they have no interest in optimising their milage. The messaging is mostly wasted.

> " if they do not care, they have no interest in optimising their milage. The messaging is mostly wasted." Right, and Tesla's messaging is not about efficiency. Their messaging has overwhelmingly been "holy shit this thing is fast! And green! And exclusive and the crowning achievement of our conquering of science and technology!" Which isn't that different from traditional sports car marketing, except the green part…

> "CFLs and energy-efficient lighting has essentially become commonly as a fashion"

I don't think fashion was a big contributor to early adoption. It was mainly the perception of saved money and frustration. Early CFL packaging often had a comparison chart showing the $30 you'd save on electricity versus using incandescent bulbs, and the 6-10 fewer times you'd have to change a burned out bulb over the next 3-5 years. It's not specifically that people care about "being green", but they do care about saving money and effort.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#227

Post by Vixter »

It will be interesting to see if Tesla will do the right thing and replace the battery packs at a reasonable price or create a PR disaster and then have to replace the packs anyway. So far HN and theunderstatement.com have the scoop. A search of the San Jose Mercury News doesn't show it yet. But there was mention of Tesla doing powertrains for Mercedes.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#228

Post by noonespecial »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #216
noonespecial wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

120v @ 15A is 1800 watts. As I said, I was able to measure the wattage being delivered at the end of my 100 foot 16 gauge "home depot" orange extension cord connected to a space heater and found less than 900 watts being delivered to a load that normally pulls 1750. The voltage had also dropped below 100 volts. Its possible that the Tesla simply won't charge at all if the current or voltage on the line becomes too lo…

A little OT, but I've found that it's better to make your own extension cables. I have a 1kW tank heater that is about 100' from the closest outlet. The cost of 100' of 12gauge house wiring and a plug, socket and outdoor outlet was much less than even a cheap 100' extension cord and has much less voltage drop.

That depends on your application. Extension cords are more expensive because they are made of stranded wire that remains flexible and resists breaking. Household wire is solid and not meant to be rolled and unrolled repeatedly. It will get kinks and weak spots. But if your application is for a relatively static run, left in place for a long time, the household wire is better.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#229

Post by Vixter »

jws wrote: post #33
noonespecial wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

120v @ 15A is 1800 watts. As I said, I was able to measure the wattage being delivered at the end of my 100 foot 16 gauge "home depot" orange extension cord connected to a space heater and found less than 900 watts being delivered to a load that normally pulls 1750. The voltage had also dropped below 100 volts. Its possible that the Tesla simply won't charge at all if the current or voltage on the line becomes too lo…

The pack is 53kWh according to wikipedia and discharges in 11 weeks from full according to the article. Unless I botched a decimal place, that is a 29 watt idle load. (53000 watt hours / (11 weeks * 7 days/week * 24 hours/day) ). In perspective, that is about the same as 4 night lights. Clearly there is about 20 times that much power available at the end of a 100 foot extension cord in a standard household outlet. Fa…

A roadster that is plugged in, is not really "off". It will provide power for heating or cooling of the battery pack if the temps get too high or too cold. This would be much more than a small idle load.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#230

Post by onemoreact »

rbanffy wrote: post #219
onemoreact wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the fuels that are in their infancy not the car's. Design a cheap energy efficient way to to turn cellulose into something close to gasoline and you will be able to make more money than Bill Gates. Theoretically it's possible, but nobody has gotten there yet.

After driving ethanol-running cars for more than 25 years, I must disagree. If you can't drive ethanol-running cars in your country, be assured it's not really a technical issue.

I often fill up with 10% ethanol gas which most cars can burn just fine, but the entire world's supply of ethanol is not enough to replace 10% of total demand with ethanol. We throw away enough feed-stock in the US to double world wide ethanol production, but it's simply not cost effective process it yet.

PS: It's not that far off though the US accounts for ~44% of the world’s gasoline consumption, but it's would take ~57% of the world's ethanol to switch every gas pump in the US to 10% ethanol.

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