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OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

asahilinux.org

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Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#121

Post by endorphine »

imiric wrote: post #63
kytazo wrote: post #3

Its been more than a year I'm running asahi on my macbook air and I can't stress how grateful I feel for enjoying such wonderful freedom. I don't feel like ever going back to x86 to be honest, at this point there is nothing lacking or unable to run and when the neural engine drivers come online now that the GPU is starting to mature people will be able to juice out every last bit of computation this machine is capabl…

> at this point there is nothing lacking or unable to run Sure there is. You just haven't run into it yourself. Faster, cooler and more power efficient hardware is great. I just don't think that it makes up for depending on a small team of volunteers to resolve all hardware issues in an ecosystem hostile to OSS, which might break at any point Apple decides to do so. And the incompatibilities with ARM are not negligib…

> I'm sticking with my slow, hot and power-hungry x86 machines with worse build quality for the foreseeable future.

Nothing wrong with being a late adopter. Nothing wrong with being an early adopter either.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#122

Post by endorphine »

kytazo wrote: post #3

Its been more than a year I'm running asahi on my macbook air and I can't stress how grateful I feel for enjoying such wonderful freedom. I don't feel like ever going back to x86 to be honest, at this point there is nothing lacking or unable to run and when the neural engine drivers come online now that the GPU is starting to mature people will be able to juice out every last bit of computation this machine is capabl…

Curious, what do you use it for?

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#123

Post by wtallis »

Thews wrote: post #93
jb1991 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are expensive but 10X certainly seems like a stretch. Show me comparably specd hardware only 10% the price of an Apple machine?

A micro ryzen 5600U build with really bad quality components can be half the price of a mac mini with equal CPU performance. If you upgrade all of the mac specs you can probably get a larger divide, but IMO maxed out macs don't make much sense for most people.

It's that focusing on one specific aspect of the system and compromising on everything else that produces the really big discrepancies. I tried to use PCPartPicker to spec out a rough equivalent of a maxed-out Mac Pro in terms of CPU cores, GPU performance, and RAM and SSD capacity, but still ended up at with at most a 3.5x disparity, and that's ignoring the GPU VRAM capacity limitation and features like Thunderbolt and 10GbE and assembly and warranty and support. If you want to assign $0 value to a large portion of a Mac's features then you can make it look wildly overpriced, but that's mostly an admission that it's the wrong product for your needs.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#124

Post by jabbany »

mattkevan wrote: post #100
jabbany wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Apple machines are usually 4 - 10 times more expensive, making this choice still quite difficult.

You mean it’s possible to buy the exact equivalent of a M1 MacBook Air for £99-£249? Send me the link, that sounds amazing.

Not sure where you got the impression of that?

There do not exist "equivalent"s to any Apple devices (I don't see them licensing the M1/2 chips to anyone else anytime soon). But depending on what you care about, a "comparable" Apple device could be 10x more expensive. Of course, for other tasks a "comparable" Apple device can also be _cheaper_ than any non-Apple device available!

Only looking at aiming for similar "longevity" (since the parent is using that as a benchmark), there are plenty of devices that have a useful life comparable to Apple devices at 1/4 - 1/10 the price.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#125

Post by biomcgary »

lonjil wrote: post #54
tormeh wrote: post #49

Sorry, but what's the point? Why not just buy a Linux laptop and have everything work out of the box? Why are Linux enthusiasts putting so much effort into supporting hardware from companies that - at best - ignore Linux? This question is also valid for other manufacturers, btw, not just Apple. So much time wasted doing free labor for hardware companies that will just break your stuff with the next hardware iteration…

> Why not just buy a Linux laptop and have everything work out of the box? Why are Linux enthusiasts putting so much effort into supporting hardware from companies that - at best - ignore Linux? Almost all laptops sold with Linux pre-installed or with support advertized only work well with Linux due to volunteer work similar to what is being done with Apple's stuff right now. Almost everything is proprietary with clo…

In an OSS ecosystem, manufacturers inherently have to use work that has been done by volunteers! The real question is whether they invest their own resources too. For example, System76 has created their own distro, Pop OS. My team and I were happy with the laptops purchased from them and the OS integration provided a smooth experience.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#126

Post by wtallis »

jabbany wrote: post #112
jb1991 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are expensive but 10X certainly seems like a stretch. Show me comparably specd hardware only 10% the price of an Apple machine?

See, here's where the undefined nature of things comes in. "Comparably spec'd" needs to be conditioned on what task you're aiming for. A "pure gold hammer" is a terrible idea and would also be terribly expensive. But asking for a "comparably spec'd" hammer presumes the absurd premise that the material of the hammer must be kept consistent regardless of its intended use just for the purpose of being comparable. To pre…

> An older server with 192G of RAM, 24 cores and >8TB of storage can easily be had and upgraded within $1k,

Are you referring to a used server, or just buying a minimally-equipped new server and upgrading it with aftermarket RAM and (low-quality) SSDs?

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#127

Post by yobert »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #94

Does anyone know how efforts are going to to get Asahi's kernel changes merged back upstream? Has anything been merged upstream already? Is there a roadmap for getting things upstreamed? Are they pursuing an incremental approach to upstreaming individual components or do they have to prove that everything is flawless on Apple silicon before anything can be merged?

This information is on their website wiki. See https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Feature-Support

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#128

Post by jb1991 »

Thews wrote: post #93
jb1991 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are expensive but 10X certainly seems like a stretch. Show me comparably specd hardware only 10% the price of an Apple machine?

A micro ryzen 5600U build with really bad quality components can be half the price of a mac mini with equal CPU performance. If you upgrade all of the mac specs you can probably get a larger divide, but IMO maxed out macs don't make much sense for most people.

A 2X price difference is certainly believable, but I was responding to the suggestion of a 10X price difference.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#129

Post by jabbany »

wtallis wrote: post #126
jabbany wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, here's where the undefined nature of things comes in. "Comparably spec'd" needs to be conditioned on what task you're aiming for. A "pure gold hammer" is a terrible idea and would also be terribly expensive. But asking for a "comparably spec'd" hammer presumes the absurd premise that the material of the hammer must be kept consistent regardless of its intended use just for the purpose of being comparable. To pre…

> An older server with 192G of RAM, 24 cores and >8TB of storage can easily be had and upgraded within $1k, Are you referring to a used server, or just buying a minimally-equipped new server and upgrading it with aftermarket RAM and (low-quality) SSDs?

Used (decommissioned from equipment retirement from companies) server, upgraded by maxing out the RAM slots and using the cheapest available SSDs.

This is a pretty common practice for homelab enthusiasts, or so I hear.

Re: OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

#130

Post by acomjean »

microtonal wrote: post #119
acomjean wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an AMD Linux laptop I’ve been using for work. It’s great. The battery life is great, it’s quite fast with a lot of cores, when I need to do my genetics runs (plugged in). Build quality isn’t bad, plus affordable and lots of ports. After my initial transition away, not missing my 2015 Mac book pro. Linux is the way to go. I don’t blame people with apple hardware for wanting it. I just don’t feel the x86 side is…

Two years ago or so I bought a ThinkPad with an AMD Ryzen CPU, there was a lot of hype about them. How Linux laptops were finally competitive, speed, driver, and battery-wise. The machine was quite a bit slower than an M1 Air, would have loud fans during video meetings, and on Linux the battery would typically last 3 hours (6-7 on Windows, yes I did all the usual power optimizations). In S3 sleep it would discharge o…

Sorry it didn't work for you. I would recommend anyone buying at notebook to get one with linux pre-installed. I did that because I want to use this thing, not futz with it.

I'm assuming you're using Asahi Linux on your Macs (though you said you wouldn't touch it..). The lack of hardware diversity should make comparability easier, even if everything need to be reversed engineered.

I get 6 hours or so on my machine. Its pretty much silent, unless I push it. Its a Ryzen 7 5700u. We do a lot of parallel compute and genetics code tends massively parallel and x86 optimized. Mostly run on cluster though. I haven't done any maintenance and have had not hardware issues.

I don't link I could ever go back to macos, or windows.

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