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The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

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Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#171

Post by throwaway2990 »

jemmyw wrote: post #91
ChoHag wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's very simple. If Russia didn't invade, Russia wouldn't be killing people and blowing up their stuff. Russia's actions are Russia's responsibility, not America's.

Constant surprise how many pro Russian views there are from a mainly American audience on a tech website. I'm anti war, anti the US going into Iraq for example. Therefore I'm on the side of Ukraine here and we should give any support necessary for them to defend themselves. No "provocation" that happened or has been made up or imagined by Russia excuses what they're doing. There are plenty of political reasons I don'…

There’s a lot of pro Russia / pro CCP people on HN. Even dang is pro CCP.

Would be nice to live in a world where there was no border conflicts or vile threats from governments.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#172

Post by consp »

perihelions wrote: post #16

Looks historically unprecedented (?). This is a run-of-the-river type dam (relatively small elevation drop between upstream and downstream), but one with an enormous reservoir, with a volume (1.8e10 m³ nominal) larger than e.g. Banqiao (4.9e8 m³) or Mosul (1.1e10 m³). It is/was #48 on Wikipedia's ranking of world's largest water reservoirs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakhovka_Hydroelectric_Power_P... https://en.wi…

Looking at the innundation by blowing up the dikes in ww2 near my birth city it's not unprecedented but now definately a war crime (which the allies did btw). The reservoir here was the North Sea.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#173

Post by KptMarchewa »

nicce wrote: post #166
dralley wrote: post #2

Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nova-kakhovka-dam-khers... Simulation of worst-case scenarios: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRYWbVD5AE The Russian State News agency claims that the dam "collapsed due to damage" https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/166592960325106892... Ukraine says it was destroyed by the Russian military. Google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kakhovka+Hydroelectric+Po…

Who benefits the most from the collapse? Does it disturb Ukraine or Russian military the most? Who will achieve military goals because of this? Does it help Ukraine in information warfare? (does it increase West participation to war)

Not really benefits anyone's offensive or defensive plans. Maybe political but that's a stretch.

No one comes out with prepared narrative too, which makes it look like an accident.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#174

Post by bjoli »

wesleywt wrote: post #39
dehrmann wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Someone provided confirmed russian defensive positions along Dniepr. Unless the Russians moved out before the Ukrainians would have at least a reason to destroy the dam.

They have, however, avoided civilian casualties, and looking at the map this would have been a deviation from that. It would fit the russian MO better

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#175

Post by wiseowise »

atdrummond wrote: post #84
MrOwnPut wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about the 2014 "election" that happened after the Crimea invasion. I'm talking about before all that. The 2014 coup openly supported by US and Europe that overthrew Ukraine's pro-Russian elected President. These things aren't propaganda, they are events that happened. Do you honestly believe that coup was totally organic and the US had no hand in that one (just others)? There is precedent for the US m…

You’re not going to have a reasonable discussion on this topic here. The last time I brought up my personal history living and working in Donetsk and the views of my neighbors and friends, I was emailed and texted multiple times by users here to “kill myself”.

Your comment isn’t adding anything to discussion.

If you have anything to say about the topic - you should say it.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#176

Post by Scarblac »

psychphysic wrote: post #149
Scarblac wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will be meters deep mud with steep banks I guess, completely open to enemy fire. Not crossable.

The benefit near the flood will be in weeks to months. That is if Ukrainian forces were concentrated elsewhere based on a plan to burst the dam. If they win on other fronts they can turn attention south by that time Crimea will have not had fresh water for months and the forces will be depleted and demoralised. This could be a major factor in the new offensive. But will require careful planning (if that didn't happen…

There is a bridge to Crimea, they will bring in water like they used to do when it was cut after 2014 (even when there was no bridge yet). They made huge reservoirs in Crimea. The canal is mostly for water used by agriculture, and it will be a problem in years to come, not this year. And definitely not for troops. The canal is a tiny detail.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#177

Post by Scarblac »

holoduke wrote: post #135
Scarblac wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia was in control of the dam, had mined it, and had in recent weeks let water levels go up to unprecedented levels. Something like 80 settlements will be completely inundated, the largest nuclear power plant in Europe loses its cooling reservoir and attacks over the river will be impossible for weeks. I don't think Ukraine did it. (getting information from the thread in /r/worldnews).

[flagged]

The only way this war is going to end is for Russia to be removed from Ukraine by force, and that unfortunately requires dead Russian soldiers.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#178

Post by lpcvoid »

FredPret wrote: post #140
jemmyw wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constant surprise how many pro Russian views there are from a mainly American audience on a tech website. I'm anti war, anti the US going into Iraq for example. Therefore I'm on the side of Ukraine here and we should give any support necessary for them to defend themselves. No "provocation" that happened or has been made up or imagined by Russia excuses what they're doing. There are plenty of political reasons I don'…

You’d think everyone in the US can align with Ukraine on this. Peaceful orientation: Russia started it Warlike orientation: Ukraine winning this thing would defeat a major US rival Budget conscious: sending $1 to Ukraine does more to cement US hegemony than sending it to the DoD Social justice types: Russia has a horrific record on the human rights of anyone who isn’t Putin Conservatives: Ukraine, formerly part of th…

Yeah, spot on. It's incredible how many people here think they see the big truth while the "herd of sheep" is obviously way less enlightened than them. How anybody can orchestrate a pro-russian view point within this conflict is mind boggling to me.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#179

Post by yread »

consp wrote: post #172
perihelions wrote: post #16

Looks historically unprecedented (?). This is a run-of-the-river type dam (relatively small elevation drop between upstream and downstream), but one with an enormous reservoir, with a volume (1.8e10 m³ nominal) larger than e.g. Banqiao (4.9e8 m³) or Mosul (1.1e10 m³). It is/was #48 on Wikipedia's ranking of world's largest water reservoirs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakhovka_Hydroelectric_Power_P... https://en.wi…

Looking at the innundation by blowing up the dikes in ww2 near my birth city it's not unprecedented but now definately a war crime (which the allies did btw). The reservoir here was the North Sea.

You're talking about Operation Infatuate when the Allies flooded Westerscheld? Flooding size could be bigger but affected population was way smaller.

Re: The Nova Kakhovka Hydroelectric dam in Ukraine has been blown open

#180

Post by TeMPOraL »

vlovich123 wrote: post #124
dralley wrote: post #2

Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/nova-kakhovka-dam-khers... Simulation of worst-case scenarios: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tRYWbVD5AE The Russian State News agency claims that the dam "collapsed due to damage" https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/166592960325106892... Ukraine says it was destroyed by the Russian military. Google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kakhovka+Hydroelectric+Po…

“Collapsed due to damage“. Looks pretty clearly like an explosion. Russian state news agency. The fine folks that bring news reports like “local nerd found hitting himself by school bully”

Interesting follow-up by the same poster here, quoting WaPo tweeting some Maxar photos, showing that the dam seems to have suffered some damage in the past week - adding credence to the possibility that it did, in fact, "collapsed due to damage", without either side specifically pulling the trigger today.

https://twitter.com/AricToler/status/1665937030222692352

But that brings up the question, what was happening there in the week prior? Was there any active fighting in the area?

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