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"It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

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Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#161

Post by EwanToo »

pkulak wrote: post #136
modeless wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries self-discharge, even when disconnected. 5% is probably not enough to last months, especially if the car is exposed to high temperatures.

So will my laptop "brick" also if I don't plug it in for a couple weeks?

Yes, I've bricked my old Macbook by doing that (for several months).

I bought a new laptop, so closed down my old Macbook, and stuck it away.

A few months later, I found I wanted to grab file from the old macbook, and noticed it wouldn't run from battery. It'll work fine plugged in, but the battery is registered as full discharged, and the Apple page says "Buy a new battery".

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#162

Post by tjmc »

salem wrote: post #154
rdl wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Based on time in a Roadster, and what I've seen of the model s, I would be totally happy with the S in the bay area, and either rent or keep a second car for trips out of the bay. With a constant level of tech, sure, the city car makes more sense, but assuming you can afford the high tech batteries, the tesla seems like a great car for how Americans use cars. If I weren't getting a model s, I'd probably g…

Regarding the taxis, just about every taxi in Australia runs on LNG these days. It's widely available, and aside from the benefits on somewhat cleaner emissions, you can easily make the money back on the conversion for the number miles they rack up. I'm surprised this is not subsidized in the USA, especially now that the reserves of gas have been revised up so much.

You're off by a carbon atom. The taxis here run on LPG not LNG. In other words - propane rather than methane. Australia still produces more LNG than pretty much anywhere, but it's all shipped off to China, Korea and Japan.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#163

Post by schiffern »

philwelch wrote: post #109
jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

I'd go even further and say that energy efficiency fundamentally can't be reached by carrying individual 100-300 pound humans around in 1000-2000 pound vehicles.

Unfortunately people aren't very inclined to ride velomobiles on the same roads as Hummers and Escalades.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#164

Post by mansolo »

haberman wrote: post #134
jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

Who said that electric cars have to be about energy efficiency? To me the primary reason to move to electric are to ditch petroleum and its associated problems (pollution, oil spills, foreign energy dependence). The way to the future is to convince people that new technology is better for them. If the message instead is "you need to give up things you like for the greater good," people will oppose you at every move,…

If someone really wants to stop contributing to pollution, oil spills, energy dependence etc - don't buy a car. Any car.

Manufacturing cars requires a tremendous amount of energy and natural resources. Everything we manufacture and consume punishes the earth.

Myself, I've decided to eschew driving. Our perceived dependence on automobiles is insane. The roads are insane. No car is going to make me cool. I want no part of it.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#166

Post by bwarp »

antihero wrote: post #165

It would be interesting if they (or we) were to do a service that for say, £20 a month, they would register if your car was about to flatline, go find it using the GPS, and attempt to recharge it for you.

That's a sticky plaster solution.

Not buying a buggy piece of crap to start with is the better solution.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#167

Post by ck2 »

Oh come on, this is a trivial problem to solve.

You put a $1 chip directly on the battery itself that if it ever drops below "x" volts, it breaks the circuit. Even if the owner has to take it back to the dealer to get it "reset" at least the battery will be saved.

My $500 LiFePo4 battery for my bicycle has something like this to prevent cell reversal. They can certainly do it for a car unless they are just doing it on purpose.

A disconnected lithium based battery can hold a base charge for YEARS.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#168

Post by rplnt »

SeanLuke wrote: post #106
jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

> Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Completely disagree. Tesla is, I think, unquestionably the most impactful company in the game, including GE and Nissan. For two reasons. First, before Tesla people thought of electric vehicles as ridiculous DIY golf carts driven by treehuggers. They were utterly uncool and stupid. P…

> GM didn't do that.

Interesting documentary - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#169

Post by leoedin »

URSpider94 wrote: post #49
noonespecial wrote: post #5

Could this really not be prevented by a $10 microcontroller and a big-ass relay to just disconnect the battery if it reaches a certain discharge state? Even my iPhone can turn turtle to protect its battery when it gets too low. Also how much power does it take to keep the damn thing plugged in? The article indicates that a 100 foot extension cord isn't enough just to break even and the car discharges even when plugge…

Could this really not be prevented by a $10 microcontroller and a big-ass relay to just disconnect the battery if it reaches a certain discharge state? Not necessarily. This might help, but the battery will also have self-discharge, meaning that it can lose charge without being connected to any load at all. If you get the charge down low enough, and then wait long enough, then even a full disconnect from the system w…

So set the cutoff higher?

Small portable gadgets using LiPoly batteries (which I assume the Tesla is using) can be left for months or years without charging, and then nursed back to life. If sufficient charge is left in them, and the circuitry is smart enough to recognise that the battery's about to die, the time before complete discharge could be extended to a much larger period of time.

The solution could even be a one-time use fuse, isolating the battery completely. Given the option, I think most owners would rather have to replace a fuse than a $40k battery.

Re: "It's A Brick" - Tesla Motors' Devastating Design Problem

#170

Post by rbanffy »

3am wrote: post #91
jdietrich wrote: post #75

Tesla are a sideshow and we desperately need to stop talking about them, because they're harming efforts to improve energy efficiency. Nissan are now in full production of the Leaf, a practical electric car that's half the price of the Model S. Renault have the Fluence ZE on sale in Israel and ready to go internationally this year. Mitsubishi are selling the i-MiEV in quantity in Hong Kong and Japan. All of these big…

You are precisely wrong. Targeting people that already buy into energy efficiency has low payoff. Say you have your enlightened urban dweller, getting 50mpg. With the fancy new hybrids, let's say they double that and get 100mpg. Given 100K miles of driving, that saves 1000 gallons of fuel. Now, take your suburbanite SUV driver getting 20mpg. You only have to get their mileage to 25mpg to save the same amount of fuel…

Biofuels are definitely not in their infancy. My first car ran on ethanol and it was in the mid 80's. The technology in very mature.
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