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Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

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Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#101

Post by xp84 »

richk449 wrote: post #88
xp84 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I hired a babysitter and on their watch, one of my kids caught on fire, yes, I'd insist on attributing that to the person whose one job it was to ensure their safety, and at least not hiring them again. Is that scapegoating or common sense? Nobody's saying they should get the guillotine, but perhaps they shouldn't be in the business of managing fire safety at the Notre Dame since it's obviously not something they'…

> If I hired a babysitter and on their watch, one of my kids caught on fire, yes, I'd insist on attributing that to the person whose one job it was to ensure their safety, and at least not hiring them again. Interesting that the responsibility stops there. What about the person that hired the obviously incompetent babysitter? They don’t appear to have sufficient judgement to be responsible for kids.

I fear you may have taken my simplified hypothetical too seriously. Nobody is suggesting one man or woman bears 100% of the responsibility for what happened at Notre Dame. Yes, it's multiple people. They should all face some consequences if only not being trusted to do those jobs.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#102

Post by ars »

ElFitz wrote: post #85
ars wrote: post #47

> it’s ethically and artistically far more imperative to stay true I could maybe understand artistically if the end result looks different. But ethically? It's a building, ethics don't apply to it.

One could argue the ethical imperative isn’t towards the building itself but towards future generations.

Why would future generations care if you used a handsaw or a powersaw to cut some wood?

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#103

Post by Zemtomo »

bambax wrote: post #4

The rebuilding is apparently going well, but this is hiding the fact that nobody seems to be doing any inquiry about why the fire wasn't stopped in time. As far as we know, the fire was an accident (not foul play) -- but an extremely preventable one. There were works in progress on the roof of the cathedral, so people were coming and going, some of them possibly smoking, electrical devices were being used, etc. And t…

Are you even closely related to this topic at all?

How would you know what and what not is going on in the background?

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#104

Post by tokinonagare »

canoebuilder wrote: post #16
bambax wrote: post #4

The rebuilding is apparently going well, but this is hiding the fact that nobody seems to be doing any inquiry about why the fire wasn't stopped in time. As far as we know, the fire was an accident (not foul play) -- but an extremely preventable one. There were works in progress on the roof of the cathedral, so people were coming and going, some of them possibly smoking, electrical devices were being used, etc. And t…

> As far as we know, the fire was an accident “As far as we know” In the same sense of like “innocent until proven guilty” But is that the right lens to be looking through here? What is the rate of accidental church fires, let alone at somewhere that is such a treasured location as this? Then factor in, wasn’t there an ongoing spate of what were clearly church arson attacks going on at the time? Then factor in what y…

Anybody with 2 brain cells to connect the dots know who and why they did it.

The reason the media and government were imposing the accident narrative while the cathedral was still burning is because this could have triggered the civil war.

This is also why the report on Bataclan massacre was not released to the general public, or why MLP was prosecuted for advocating terrorism (ffs) when she published pictures of terrorism acts condemning them on Twitter. The sheeps must sleep.

The censorship is also strong here: if I recall correctly I got a HN account banned here by the censor-in-chief for voicing my opinion on the matter at the time (which as a French I think is more informed than the random poster here).

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#105

Post by ElFitz »

ars wrote: post #102
ElFitz wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue the ethical imperative isn’t towards the building itself but towards future generations.

Why would future generations care if you used a handsaw or a powersaw to cut some wood?

They could care about being left with something that is qualitatively worse than what burned down during our time because people chose to cut corners.

Now, does using a powersaw instead of a handsaw produce qualitatively worse results? I have no idea. I know nothing about woodworking. And I’ve certainly never worked on restoring or rebuilding any kind of monument. Let alone a centuries old one.

Perhaps they consider it to be important to set what they see as the proper mindset? Perhaps it’s just for show? Or to tell them themselves they did it the best they could? Perhaps there is an objective technical justification?

How could I know? The closest I’ve ever come to cutting wood was using some hydraulic wedge thing at the back of a tractor.

So I’m not arguing and will not be arguing about the specifics of their choices in tools and techniques. That’d be vain and pointless, and I could not argue in good faith.

Which is fine, because the technique is not my point.

My point sole is that, despite it being a building, there can still be an ethical imperative.

That’s all.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#106

Post by soco »

scottLobster wrote: post #10
soco wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Save the costs" is the official religion of the MBA era we live in and no sacrifice is too big. Am I sarcastic? I can't tell.

Yep, to the modern administrative class "don't shit where you eat" is laughably old fashioned. Modernity brings a new contest: who can shit where they eat the most for the longest? Last one to get cholera wins! And don't worry about the actual cholera infection, that's what taxpayer bailouts are for!

I have the feeling that the whole MBA study is for jury-rigging the system. And not as one would have expected to, you know, build things.
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