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Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

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Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#81

Post by canoebuilder »

andrepd wrote: post #75
canoebuilder wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hating God, is hating the world, is hating yourself. No good reason for that. If another earthly mortal connected to a church has done something you take issue with, take it up with that person, don’t damage or destroy a community’s property, heritage, and connection to the transcendent. people here srsly advocating/justifying criminal, potentially homicidal activity, smh

1. How is "hating god" hating the world and yourself (lol), and 2. who tf is advocating for criminal activity here? You clearly have an axe to grind, so perhaps take it somewhere else.

>axe to grind Surprised you would have that interpretation, didn’t mean that at all. Your tone here, and in other comments seems rather more hostile than mine.

>who tf Unauthorized setting of fire to a structure is illegal, if someone is in or around the structure, it could kill the person.

“”” _People angry at churches _with good reason _get the torch “””

That reads at the very least as justifying, if not advocating. It’s certainly not saying we should strive to handle our issues in healthy and productive ways.

>1. How is

The concept of God at the baseline level is equivalent and synonymous with existence. People over time in various cultures and traditions have agglomerated various flavours onto the concept of God , but at the baseline level, God = existence.

The essence of what God is, is that the concept comes from the desire or impulse to understand or make sense of “the world” / existence.

You are a part of existence. And maybe not just “a part,” as you’ll see if you try to find the demarcation points that definitively separate you from the other parts.

You are the way in which awareness is aware of awareness. “You” are the existence that gives rise to the feeling and observation of existence.

God = existence If you hate God, you hate existence. If you hate existence, you hate yourself.

Better to love than hate, or perhaps even better to understand dichotomies.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#82

Post by masfuerte »

chrstphrknwtn wrote: post #15
bambax wrote: post #4

The rebuilding is apparently going well, but this is hiding the fact that nobody seems to be doing any inquiry about why the fire wasn't stopped in time. As far as we know, the fire was an accident (not foul play) -- but an extremely preventable one. There were works in progress on the roof of the cathedral, so people were coming and going, some of them possibly smoking, electrical devices were being used, etc. And t…

> some of them possibly smoking I lived in Paris for a time, I would say it is guaranteed some were smoking.

I was in CDG airport in the 90s, shortly after they introduced a smoking ban, and gasping for a fag. So I went over to a check-in desk and asked the woman where the nearest smoking area was. She gave me a Gallic shrug and gestured to indicate the entire airport.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#83

Post by xp84 »

hackernewds wrote: post #36
bambax wrote: post #4

The rebuilding is apparently going well, but this is hiding the fact that nobody seems to be doing any inquiry about why the fire wasn't stopped in time. As far as we know, the fire was an accident (not foul play) -- but an extremely preventable one. There were works in progress on the roof of the cathedral, so people were coming and going, some of them possibly smoking, electrical devices were being used, etc. And t…

Why is there a tendency for scapegoating necessary in these situations? It seems like a western cultural carnal temptation for personal justice porn

If I hired a babysitter and on their watch, one of my kids caught on fire, yes, I'd insist on attributing that to the person whose one job it was to ensure their safety, and at least not hiring them again. Is that scapegoating or common sense? Nobody's saying they should get the guillotine, but perhaps they shouldn't be in the business of managing fire safety at the Notre Dame since it's obviously not something they're good at.

CV headline: "Oversaw safety at a national landmark -- Allowed only a single billion-dollar fire"

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#84

Post by mauvehaus »

mywittyname wrote: post #62
samtho wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a woodworker, I get what your saying but calling the approach of using older methods as “more honorable” kind of rubs me the wrong way. It’s not like the original builders had a choice of what to use, I would bet they would choose the modern stuff if you could somehow loan them the technology from the future. Using modern tools is not antithetical to craftsmanship, it’s about the care, attention to detail, designs…

Cheap and quick has been the carpenter's mantra since the dawn of time. One look at the inside of an old piece of furniture shows how little effort went into things that weren't readily seen. Mortise and tenon joints are fast and easy (read: cheap and quick) to make with a chisel and hammer. You can bet carpenters of old would be using nails and screws to build all kinds of things, if they were as cheap and abundant…

As a professional furniture maker, I assure you that cutting mortises by hand is not high on anybody's list of cheap and quick things to do. At the furniture scale, we've had foot and spring powered mortiser since before we had electricity. For timber framing and similar scales, most of the waste has been bored out with manual boring machines and then the rest of the mortise is finished by hand.

Chopping is a pain in the ass, and people have been doing their best to avoid it for centuries. Hell, we're still inventing new ways to cut mortises: see the Festool Domino, which is recent enough to still be protected by patents.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#85

Post by ElFitz »

ars wrote: post #47

> it’s ethically and artistically far more imperative to stay true I could maybe understand artistically if the end result looks different. But ethically? It's a building, ethics don't apply to it.

One could argue the ethical imperative isn’t towards the building itself but towards future generations.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#86

Post by [deleted] »

londons_explore wrote: post #48
bambax wrote: post #4

The rebuilding is apparently going well, but this is hiding the fact that nobody seems to be doing any inquiry about why the fire wasn't stopped in time. As far as we know, the fire was an accident (not foul play) -- but an extremely preventable one. There were works in progress on the roof of the cathedral, so people were coming and going, some of them possibly smoking, electrical devices were being used, etc. And t…

It has burnt down and been rebuilt many times in it's history. Just like we are rebuilding with original stones and techniques, one should perhaps argue that it should also be rebuilt with its original fire resilience too - ie. Low. At this point, a fire once every hundred years or so is part of the culture, and to stop doing that is in a way destroying the character of the cathedral.

[deleted]

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#87

Post by burntwater »

canoebuilder wrote: post #41
hackernewds wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is there a tendency for scapegoating necessary in these situations? It seems like a western cultural carnal temptation for personal justice porn

Something bad occurred. Let’s figure out what, why, and how, and make any necessary changes to make future occurrences of bad thing less likely. I don’t see how that is scapegoating.

The OP is insisting on finding people to blame, and finding people to fire. That sounds like scapegoating to me.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#88

Post by richk449 »

xp84 wrote: post #83
hackernewds wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is there a tendency for scapegoating necessary in these situations? It seems like a western cultural carnal temptation for personal justice porn

If I hired a babysitter and on their watch, one of my kids caught on fire, yes, I'd insist on attributing that to the person whose one job it was to ensure their safety, and at least not hiring them again. Is that scapegoating or common sense? Nobody's saying they should get the guillotine, but perhaps they shouldn't be in the business of managing fire safety at the Notre Dame since it's obviously not something they'…

> If I hired a babysitter and on their watch, one of my kids caught on fire, yes, I'd insist on attributing that to the person whose one job it was to ensure their safety, and at least not hiring them again.

Interesting that the responsibility stops there. What about the person that hired the obviously incompetent babysitter? They don’t appear to have sufficient judgement to be responsible for kids.

Re: Workers rely on medieval era tech to reconstruct the Notre Dame

#90

Post by np- »

xp84 wrote: post #83
hackernewds wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is there a tendency for scapegoating necessary in these situations? It seems like a western cultural carnal temptation for personal justice porn

If I hired a babysitter and on their watch, one of my kids caught on fire, yes, I'd insist on attributing that to the person whose one job it was to ensure their safety, and at least not hiring them again. Is that scapegoating or common sense? Nobody's saying they should get the guillotine, but perhaps they shouldn't be in the business of managing fire safety at the Notre Dame since it's obviously not something they'…

That would still raise a lot of questions right? Who hired the babysitter and what kind of vetting did they do? How did the fire start, was it due to poor maintenance and who was responsible for that? Why did none of the automated fire safety equipment work and who manufactured and installed that? Etc etc. it’s pretty pointless to just blame one person in the chain and call it a day
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