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Tomb Raider

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Re: Tomb Raider

#71

Post by teddyh »

bloqs wrote: post #59
teddyh wrote: post #46

Any discussion of classic Tomb Raider is incomplete without mentioning that the first Tomb Raider games are essentially exact copies of the original Prince of Persia game, translated to 3D. Not the level layout or story, but the control scheme – very distinct and not used by any other games – is identical . Also the standard traps are replicated, like collapsing tiles and spikes emerging from tiles. Tomb Raider does…

Arent all games derivative? Or is this uncorking that "inspiration vs plagirism" discussion that resolves in everyone having a contest to see who can smugly name what the earliest derivation is... eventually going back to cave paintings

Oh, I’m not claiming plagiarism, it’s just that it always goes unmentioned, when it’s such an obvious copy of the largest part of the gameplay.

Re: Tomb Raider

#72

Post by zztop44 »

cubefox wrote: post #38
FredPret wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nowadays there are more women in gaming, but when Lara Croft first appeared, it would have been odd to expect anything but a male gaze from a popluation of nearly 100% male developers and customers.

And "male gaze" wasn't a deciding factor anyway. Lara Croft wasn't even viewed as a sex object like some singers or actresses.

If you think this you weren’t a middle school boy when Tomb Raider came out :)

Re: Tomb Raider

#73

Post by imiric »

cubefox wrote: post #53
imiric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. > That's like Nintendo dec…

> Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. Well, the article explic…

> Even Tomb Raider 1 - 6 did not have that much continuity.

If you're talking strictly about the physical appearance, sure they did. TR 1-5 are basically the same game, running on the same engine, and Lara looks practically the same. These were all released within a span of 5 years, so it's no wonder only incremental changes were done.

TR 6 was the first attempt to redesign the character, but then again, the game setting and direction was entirely different. After that flopped, the series went on hiatus until the very well received 2006 reboot with Legend, which was developed by Crystal Dynamics instead of Core Design, so the changes aren't surprising.

> The continuity of the first six games is simply lost, it's like replacing Homer Simpson with some different, slimmer, more average looking character, while still calling him Homer Simpson.

I see your point, but video game characters are much more fluid than cartoon characters. For one, the content is released every few years, and each release gives designers the chance to tweak the appearance. Moreover, the technology changes rapidly, which makes some features possible that weren't before, and designers tend to experiment with that. The free-flowing hair braid wasn't possible before the first TR game, and neither was making a character "attractive", so they leaned into those features in the early design. But it doesn't mean that these are the defining features of the character.

Ultimately this boils down to the creative vision of the creators, and how strictly they want to stick to a single design throughout the series. Considering the TR IP changed hands several times, it's likely that designers were given the freedom to experiment.

BTW, those cosplayers are enacting the early version of Lara, but notice that those sunglasses aren't fashionable anymore, and realistically, that outfit is highly impractical for the exploring that Lara is supposed to do. So if the artistic vision for the project changes for whatever reason, so will the character appearance. As long as they keep the fundamental traits of the character, their physical appearance shouldn't matter. At least to me it doesn't, but you're free to disagree, of course. :)

Re: Tomb Raider

#74

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

imiric wrote: post #43
cubefox wrote: post #24

My problem with the Tomb Raider design is that they swapped out Lara Croft for someone else. Lara used to have the same consistent design till Tomb Raider 6 (The Angel of Darkness). Her iconic face, known from countless magazine covers, posters, ads, and even music videos (in German speaking countries she appeared in a Die Ärzte music video which topped the charts for weeks [1]). Her trade mark braid hair style, too.…

Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. > That's like Nintendo dec…

>her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware

Are you saying real women don't have triangle boobs?

Re: Tomb Raider

#75

Post by hnlmorg »

IshKebab wrote: post #40

> But how many copies of Tomb Raider do you think they’d have sold if they’d made Lara Croft flat-chested? Probably lots? It helped with publicity for sure, so they would have sold fewer but it was successful because it was a great game, not because of triangular boobs.

I can’t speak for everyone but I never played the games because of her shape. Frankly, I never found her character design that attractive (the low polygon count probably didn’t help) but even if I did, the vast majority of the game is spent from behind her anyway.

Re: Tomb Raider

#76

Post by imiric »

Loved the article, and replying again as a top-level comment to point out something else I just learned about.

The last TR game after Shadow of the TR was a mobile one: TR Reloaded[1]. It looks like a lazy cash grab infested with microtransactions. It's a damn shame seeing yet another franchise tarnished like this.

It's great when an IP experiments with different game genres and mechanics. Guardian of Light and Temple of Osiris were beautifully done, and there should be more of that. But these lazy mobile ports do a disservice to the IP.

I'm looking forward to the next proper release in the franchise. We need a good current-gen title to fill the void of Uncharted. :)

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsoVCxbxTN0

Re: Tomb Raider

#77

Post by cornfutes »

> 100 million copies combined and three feature films whose box-office receipts approach $1 billion, everybody not living under a proverbial rock has heard of Lara Croft.

Meh, that’s only a small percentage of the world population. There’s a lot of first world Western bias here.

Re: Tomb Raider

#78

Post by AlecSchueler »

teddyh wrote: post #71
bloqs wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arent all games derivative? Or is this uncorking that "inspiration vs plagirism" discussion that resolves in everyone having a contest to see who can smugly name what the earliest derivation is... eventually going back to cave paintings

Oh, I’m not claiming plagiarism, it’s just that it always goes unmentioned, when it’s such an obvious copy of the largest part of the gameplay.

Not mentioned in this article but I've seen numerous interviews and documentaries where the creators go in depth about the PoP influence.

Re: Tomb Raider

#79

Post by AlecSchueler »

cubefox wrote: post #28
Apocryphon wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have absolute no interest in any of the new Tomb Raider games nor the franchise in general other than as a retro curio, but that decision seems little more controversial than say, recasting James Bond. It’s far from the only case of developers doubling down on a rebooted character redesign. Kratos didn’t get a physical image shift but isn’t he like a responsible dad now or something?

Bond had to be recasted, there was no physical way around it. But recasting Lara Croft is as unnecessary as recasting Homer Simpson.

Compare how Homer looks now to how he looked in season 1.

Re: Tomb Raider

#80

Post by shocks »

cubefox wrote: post #24

My problem with the Tomb Raider design is that they swapped out Lara Croft for someone else. Lara used to have the same consistent design till Tomb Raider 6 (The Angel of Darkness). Her iconic face, known from countless magazine covers, posters, ads, and even music videos (in German speaking countries she appeared in a Die Ärzte music video which topped the charts for weeks [1]). Her trade mark braid hair style, too.…

Change is part of life and happens to everything. Embrace it.
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