Tomb Raider • Hacker News Board

Re: Tomb Raider

#61

Post by vladharbuz » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:07 AM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #24

My problem with the Tomb Raider design is that they swapped out Lara Croft for someone else. Lara used to have the same consistent design till Tomb Raider 6 (The Angel of Darkness). Her iconic face, known from countless magazine covers, posters, ads, and even music videos (in German speaking countries she appeared in a Die Ärzte music video which topped the charts for weeks [1]). Her trade mark braid hair style, too.…

> If it is so important for those people who love to complain about such stuff. Though I suspect most of the people complaining about her proportions didn't even play the games themselves.

You can make your point without claiming that people who have a different view just “love to complain”. It might be worth asking yourself why they're complaining instead of dismissing their views — you wouldn't want someone else to dismiss your view like that.

Re: Tomb Raider

#62

Post by zelos » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:08 AM UTC

badsectoracula wrote: post #47

jibe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only have they been pretty good, they weren’t made by Ubisoft. Crystal Dynamics & Eidos Montréal did the last few, published by Square.

It is very common to use "generic Ubisoft open world game" to refer to any game regardless of developer that follows Ubisoft's open word formula of having an open world with ton of pointless random collectables, lots of icons in the world map for them, the world being separated in areas/regions you "conquer", kitchensink gameplay where everythings is thrown together with shooting, hunting, crafting, skill trees, ques…

See also Zero Punctuation’s name for it: https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jiminy%20coc...

Re: Tomb Raider

#63

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:21 AM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #53

imiric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. > That's like Nintendo dec…

> Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. Well, the article explic…

[deleted]

Re: Tomb Raider

#64

Post by cubefox » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:22 AM UTC

teddyh wrote: post #46

Any discussion of classic Tomb Raider is incomplete without mentioning that the first Tomb Raider games are essentially exact copies of the original Prince of Persia game, translated to 3D. Not the level layout or story, but the control scheme – very distinct and not used by any other games – is identical . Also the standard traps are replicated, like collapsing tiles and spikes emerging from tiles. Tomb Raider does…

Oh, and there was actually a 2D Tomb Raider game for the GBC which really used the same grid game mechanics as Prince of Persia.

Another fun fact: There was an Indiana Jones game for the N64, which was heavily inspired by Tomb Raider. Which was heavily inspired by the Indy movies.

Re: Tomb Raider

#65

Post by BingLee » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:28 AM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #53

imiric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. > That's like Nintendo dec…

> Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. Well, the article explic…

>Even cosplayers do a decent job

Ha ha. And what would they know about character design!

The new design has proven sticky amongst a proportion of the cosplay community at the very least, and that surely is a useful bellwether.

Re: Tomb Raider

#66

Post by cubefox » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:29 AM UTC

vladharbuz wrote: post #61

cubefox wrote: post #24

My problem with the Tomb Raider design is that they swapped out Lara Croft for someone else. Lara used to have the same consistent design till Tomb Raider 6 (The Angel of Darkness). Her iconic face, known from countless magazine covers, posters, ads, and even music videos (in German speaking countries she appeared in a Die Ärzte music video which topped the charts for weeks [1]). Her trade mark braid hair style, too.…

> If it is so important for those people who love to complain about such stuff. Though I suspect most of the people complaining about her proportions didn't even play the games themselves. You can make your point without claiming that people who have a different view just “love to complain”. It might be worth asking yourself why they're complaining instead of dismissing their views — you wouldn't want someone else to…

But I think it's true in that case. At least Goulet's arguments mentioned in the article are very bad, as I wrote elsewhere in this thread.

Re: Tomb Raider

#67

Post by CharlesW » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:30 AM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #32

bboygravity wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recasting Lara Croft is more like recasting Duke Nukem into a skinny woke guy. Makes no sense IMO.

Duke Nukem is a good example. He also had somewhat exaggerated proportions, but it suited him, because his face didn't look realistic either. Just like Lara, who also had a slight comic-like look. It's absurd to imply (like Michelle Goulet in the article) that having female characters with exaggerated proportions automatically means "disrespecting" woman. She also says that designers may "throw in all the sexuality y…

> Anyway, the meme that boys at the time commonly viewed Lara Croft as "sex object" is absurd. We did not.

You may not have, but everyone else did. Designer Toby Gard literally designed her to appeal sexually to male gamers in order to offset the fear that they otherwise wouldn't want to play a female main character. Early Lara Croft had ridiculous proportions. Her outfit is a t-shirt and booty shorts, for goodness' sake. Gamers of the time were obsessed with the idea of a "Nude Raider" cheat.

https://gaming-urban-legends.fandom.com/wiki/Nude_Raider

"Ever since Tomb Raider's release, its heroine, Lara Croft, has been seen as a major sex symbol in the video game industry, and that has been a large focus of the franchise's marketing."

Re: Tomb Raider

#68

Post by mablopoule » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:31 AM UTC

cubefox wrote: post #64

teddyh wrote: post #46

Any discussion of classic Tomb Raider is incomplete without mentioning that the first Tomb Raider games are essentially exact copies of the original Prince of Persia game, translated to 3D. Not the level layout or story, but the control scheme – very distinct and not used by any other games – is identical . Also the standard traps are replicated, like collapsing tiles and spikes emerging from tiles. Tomb Raider does…

Oh, and there was actually a 2D Tomb Raider game for the GBC which really used the same grid game mechanics as Prince of Persia. Another fun fact: There was an Indiana Jones game for the N64, which was heavily inspired by Tomb Raider. Which was heavily inspired by the Indy movies.

And the cycle continued in the 2014 remake of Tomb Raider, which was heavily inspired by the Uncharted games. Which was heavily inspired by the original Tomb Raider games.

Re: Tomb Raider

#69

Post by BingLee » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:40 AM UTC

avereveard wrote: post #44

cubefox wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Duke Nukem is a good example. He also had somewhat exaggerated proportions, but it suited him, because his face didn't look realistic either. Just like Lara, who also had a slight comic-like look. It's absurd to imply (like Michelle Goulet in the article) that having female characters with exaggerated proportions automatically means "disrespecting" woman. She also says that designers may "throw in all the sexuality y…

Even if the movement is legitimate and has important goals to achieve, self fashioned movement spokespersons whom made a living about being angry can't stop being angry at things, what else are they supposed to do, mission accomplished, pack up and go to the unemployment queues? Of course they will keep finding new details or interpretations to complain about.

[flagged]

Re: Tomb Raider

#70

Post by imiric » Sat, Jun 03, 2023, 9:59 AM UTC

swexbe wrote: post #52

imiric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Game design is limited by the technology of its time. Lara Croft's face was poorly defined, and her features were exaggerated partly because it wasn't possible to render an attractive quasi-realistic character before the first generation of 3D hardware. The renders shown in promos and cover art were done in much higher quality, and the Lara in those hardly resembled the in-game Lara either. > That's like Nintendo dec…

Venom, Solid, Solidus, Liquid, and Naked Snake are all different people. Naked becomes Big Boss. Solid, Solidus, Liquid are clones of Big Boss. Venom thinks he's Big Boss. I don't understand what's so confusing? :)

Ah, TIL, thanks. But they all should look like Big Boss then? Considering the reply to your comment that Venom underwent plastic surgery...

Kojima may be a genius game designer, but he's an awful writer IMO. None of his lore makes sense, and is only convoluted for it be served in exposition dumps in hour-long cutscenes. Death Stranding is a prime example of that. I enjoyed playing it, but can't remember a thing about the motivation of any of the characters.