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Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

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Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#111

Post by [deleted] »

ekianjo wrote: post #80
vkou wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. Most of them weren't even tried . And of those that were, most of the ones who fought the charges weren't convicted, or were convicted of far lesser charges. Only a few got death sentences. ... For instance, the industrialists that bankrolled the Nazis, ran their factories with slave labour, and made posion gas for exterminating Jews and other victims of fascism got 2 to 7 years, with most of them being ac…

We are still waiting for the war criminals who bombed Dresden to be tried as well.

[deleted]

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#113

Post by vkou »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #102
vkou wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. Most of them weren't even tried . And of those that were, most of the ones who fought the charges weren't convicted, or were convicted of far lesser charges. Only a few got death sentences. ... For instance, the industrialists that bankrolled the Nazis, ran their factories with slave labour, and made posion gas for exterminating Jews and other victims of fascism got 2 to 7 years, with most of them being ac…

You do remember that Germany's humiliation at Versailles was a major factor leading up to WWII, right? Are you absolutely sure you need to humiliate a nation even after you achieved total military victory?

I'm sure you're able to tell the difference between the guilt of Germany's government and various other collaborators in terms of starting and prosecuting WWI, and what they did prior to, and during WWII.

If Versailles went too far in punishing the country, Nuremberg went nowhere near far enough in punishing the Nazis involved. And if bringing Nazis to justice is 'humiliating the country', I would suggest that country should consider disentangling itself from them.

Tying your national identity to those monsters is not a good look.

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#114

Post by winrid »

readonthegoapp wrote: post #78
winrid wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's peobably worth noting Doenitz still spent 10 years in prison for crimes against peace. He didn't get out early because he wouldn't denounce his allegiance to Hitler, either.

you are saying that US military leaders should have served time too?

That wasn't my intent. You mean the US submarine commanders? Probably not, no..

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#115

Post by lostlogin »

sorokod wrote: post #110
eschulz wrote: post #10

The Nuremberg Trials were fascinating. While I think many of the individuals leading the tribunal were trying to do a good job in the tradition of their respective nations' legal frameworks, the victorious allies could really not see eye to eye on what was a fair measure of retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence, etc. So my take is that largely all legal norms were discarded or violated, and the tribunal had to reac…

"So my take is that largely all legal norms were discarded or violated" Could you give some examples?

It's not exactly what you are asking, but the tribunal wasn't even internally consistent. Look at Albert Speer. He wasn't executed and was about as high in the Nazi organisation as one could rise. Uniquely, he accepted (some) responsibility but other than that, the ruling is not very consistent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#116

Post by lostlogin »

ekianjo wrote: post #80
vkou wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incorrect. Most of them weren't even tried . And of those that were, most of the ones who fought the charges weren't convicted, or were convicted of far lesser charges. Only a few got death sentences. ... For instance, the industrialists that bankrolled the Nazis, ran their factories with slave labour, and made posion gas for exterminating Jews and other victims of fascism got 2 to 7 years, with most of them being ac…

We are still waiting for the war criminals who bombed Dresden to be tried as well.

Why? They are dead.

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#117

Post by matheusmoreira »

vkou wrote: post #113
matheusmoreira wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do remember that Germany's humiliation at Versailles was a major factor leading up to WWII, right? Are you absolutely sure you need to humiliate a nation even after you achieved total military victory?

I'm sure you're able to tell the difference between the guilt of Germany's government and various other collaborators in terms of starting and prosecuting WWI, and what they did prior to, and during WWII. If Versailles went too far in punishing the country, Nuremberg went nowhere near far enough in punishing the Nazis involved. And if bringing Nazis to justice is 'humiliating the country', I would suggest that countr…

Those monsters took a crushed Germany and turned her into an economical, technological and military power house capable of waging war against the world. Would you "disentangle" yourself from something like that? Remember, they were once popular.

It's a mistake to think you're not crushing a nation's pride and self-respect by exacting vengeance against your monsters. Their restraint was wise and showed they learned valuable lessons.

Re: Archive of the Military Tribunal at Nuremberg, 1945-46

#118

Post by sgt101 »

parabyl wrote: post #40
eschulz wrote: post #10

The Nuremberg Trials were fascinating. While I think many of the individuals leading the tribunal were trying to do a good job in the tradition of their respective nations' legal frameworks, the victorious allies could really not see eye to eye on what was a fair measure of retribution, rehabilitation, deterrence, etc. So my take is that largely all legal norms were discarded or violated, and the tribunal had to reac…

These sorts of ordeals (not that there have been many of them) truly fascinate me - especially with regard to the decisions on 'appropriate' retributive justice. As a student growing up in South Africa we were often asked to compare the objectives and results of the Nuremburg trials alongside the Truth and Reconciliation Comission at the fall of Apartheid. The TRC allowed those accused (on both sides), to come forwar…

I think that one of the concerns about a TRC in NI is/was that both sides saw the future opportunity for justice within the existing or likely to exist legal framework. A TRC would have nullified that and many people felt that the state actors (in particular) should not be allowed to evade potential accountability.
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