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What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

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Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#371

Post by dash2 »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #59
dash2 wrote: post #23

As advanced countries' systems for marriage and child-rearing continue to fail, there is a constant demand for cope. What if we learned to love being single? What if we substitute friendship for marriage? 64 ways to enjoy retirement on your own! This is the collective version of listening to an alcoholic explain why he doesn't have a problem.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: There is more than one kind of relationship! It's exhausting to constantly hear about romantic commitment as if it's the barometer for all relationships . That's absurd! Did it truly never cross your mind that a person can have more than one meaningful relationship in their lives? No wonder people are so lonely! You don't need one or the other: you can participate in a close…

Thanks for the advice. By the way, how old are you?

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#372

Post by bumby »

SoftTalker wrote: post #352
bumby wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things that distinguishes the first three groups in your set is shared hardship. Many in the military (and elsewhere) think this is a necessary component to form those kinds of tight bonds. So it's not that they are "allowed" to have these feeling under life-threatening situations, it's that dire circumstances foster those feelings.

Fraternity hazing is (was) supposed to create those bonds, but it's been drastically curtailed at most universities, and I'm not sure how well it ever worked (was never in a fraternity). In many cases it was just "here drink all this liquor and if it doesn't kill you, we'll initiate you"

There’s hazing in the military too. But rites if passage is different than what I’m talking about. Hazing in particular isn’t shared suffering, because it’s one person or group doing it to another while not going through it at the same time. I wonder if there may also be an aspect of suffering needing to be coupled with purpose.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#373

Post by ChrisLTD »

nemo44x wrote: post #235
ri45 wrote: post #18

As an adult, friendships keep passing by. All of a sudden a good friend "gets busy" or "life just happens". I really do not believe it anymore, even if people are genuinely busy, the least they can do is spare a few seconds of their day to reply back to a text? After what can only be described as a long "sliding window" of maintaining multiple friendships, seeing one tail expire and me actively trying to build more,…

You need to maintain your friends relationships from younger days. You need to check-in, maintain a social circle, etc. It takes work. The magic is if you keep your core group close (and it's easier today with the Internet to keep in touch) then when you are able to get together (may be once a year!) you'l just pick it up like you hung out yesterday.

Not sure why you're being downvoted here.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#374

Post by hxugufjfjf »

bumby wrote: post #372
SoftTalker wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fraternity hazing is (was) supposed to create those bonds, but it's been drastically curtailed at most universities, and I'm not sure how well it ever worked (was never in a fraternity). In many cases it was just "here drink all this liquor and if it doesn't kill you, we'll initiate you"

There’s hazing in the military too. But rites if passage is different than what I’m talking about. Hazing in particular isn’t shared suffering, because it’s one person or group doing it to another while not going through it at the same time. I wonder if there may also be an aspect of suffering needing to be coupled with purpose.

Its shared, just not simultaneously. Its more a shared experience of «we all went through this suffering earlier»

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#375

Post by stuckinhell »

medo-bear wrote: post #306
thomastjeffery wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> societal expectations are against faith and trust in the other person That implies a need for faith and trust in a person. Where does is that need come from? Committed romance. If that isn't my goal, what do I have to fear?

i believe that need is an intrinsicaly human need

You are probably correct, watching what people DO rather that what they SAY. Just look how fast America went from conservative christianity to flying Pride Flags over the the American Flag.

It's clear there is no separation between church and state. People just debate the religion of the "church".

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#376

Post by nashashmi »

xracy wrote: post #368
nashashmi wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> felt obligated to keep alive Back to the point made before, relationships are being defined as feelings like feeling obligated to keep it alive . You are kind of bottling the definition of relationships to just "feelings" and ignoring relationships formed with explicit terms, like marriages are made. Some relationships are defined by blood and some by a contract (like a marriage contract) and others by history. Som…

Yeah, first off there's nothing special about "blood" relationships. It's just the people you grew up around, so you're more partial to those people, because time in = time out. My siblings and I aren't close because we're related. The proof of that is my parents and I aren't close. They rely too much on thinking they don't have to show up for the relationship because "they created/raised me." My siblings, friends an…

Depending on the laws of the state you live in, divorce is not exactly a thing you can pick off a shelf.

Sorry that your world is so deeply broken where blood relationships don’t mean anything to you. Family is family and that matters more than friendships. Even if you find greater acceptance in other social circles, family is always going to be different.

Joining and leaving relationships isn’t the only kind of relationship that exist. Some are bonds that you cannot break. Some are contracts that you enter into. And some are transient and fleeting, like you described.

Virtually all relationships are a trade. No trade means no relationship.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#377

Post by medo-bear »

stuckinhell wrote: post #375
medo-bear wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i believe that need is an intrinsicaly human need

You are probably correct, watching what people DO rather that what they SAY. Just look how fast America went from conservative christianity to flying Pride Flags over the the American Flag. It's clear there is no separation between church and state. People just debate the religion of the "church".

i am not sure if we are talking about the same thing so i want to say that i strongly believe family relationships precede religion. i am from eastern europe and i think people had better family lives during socialism then they do now, which is ironic given the very strict seperation of church and state

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#378

Post by bumby »

hxugufjfjf wrote: post #374
bumby wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s hazing in the military too. But rites if passage is different than what I’m talking about. Hazing in particular isn’t shared suffering, because it’s one person or group doing it to another while not going through it at the same time. I wonder if there may also be an aspect of suffering needing to be coupled with purpose.

Its shared, just not simultaneously. Its more a shared experience of «we all went through this suffering earlier»

Understood, and that's what I was pointing to with the slightly different idea of a rite of passage. But I think there's an important distinction that impacts the bonds that are formed. For example, all Marines went through the roughly equivalent rite of passage of boot camp. Given that, a Marine who served in Iraq may still feel some camaraderie when meeting a WW2 Marine, but probably not to the same level as another veteran from Iraq because the bond from the latter has closer, shared experience. And when it comes to someone who served in the same unit, the bond will likely be greater still. I think there's an aspect of psychological distance that is relevant to the bond.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#379

Post by friend_and_foe »

0xr0kk3r wrote: post #364
friend_and_foe wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, it's got nothing to do with being discouraged and everything to do with culture and identity. The problem is that men don't bond over nothing. Sitting around watching TV, drinking beer or whatever are nice, you can make good friends just because you share a hobby or whatever. Our ancestors went out into the world together and killed animals. They taught each other's sons how to fight. Our social organization is…

Hm. I'm man. I don't need to kill, fight, or some paleolithic tribe narrative to forge deep lifelong bonds. I just tell the men in my life that I care about that I love them and will be there for them if they ever need me, and then follow up on that promise. That's all it takes to forge a bond. None of this Rambo death fantasy that 90% of the replies to my post keep blathering on about. I'm curious. Are you a man? If…

Yes and yes. But it's not the same, you've never experienced the strongest of bonds between men.

It's not about killing, it's not about paleolithic shit, it's not about apey dudebro stuff. You don't understand it, what you're doing when you discount it is the same thing your caricature of these men do when they want to avoid emotional situations. You're dismissing, youre cringing, you're making light of it so you don't get seen behaving that way. No different than a "tough guy" pretending he doesn't love his wife or whatever. You're closing a part of yourself off same as them and pretending it doesnt exist same as them and you are missing out on something so overwhelmingly engrossing that is at the core of being a human.

You'll note, in the comment of mine you responded to, I never said anything about extreme duress.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#380

Post by jvm___ »

hansc wrote: post #249
jvm___ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't always happen though. I feel the most lonely when I'm alone with my wife. We can only have a back and forth conversation on topics that interest her, or the day to day of the house/kids, anything outside those things is just never discussed or is a one-way conversation that just dies. I was friendless and grew up with the same 15 boys until the end of highschool, never fit in. Married the first girl who…

I like what Steven Covey writes: "Love is a verb". I find that both my wife and myself, and myself and my kids get closer by doing things together that we all enjoy. This ranges from trying out a new restaurant in town, to going to a museum or themepark we all enjoy, to going on holidays. What I am trying to say is that experiencing things together may help you bond more and experience pleasant feelings together.

That's part of our struggle. We had an unexpected gift of $1,000 as an anniversary present from her parents. We have free childcare available anytime we want it. We had the entire summer of 2021 to find and go do something together that we could both enjoy. We didn't come up with anything.

We're compatible roommates, but we have very different languages of play. I like to explore, she prefers to stay home - if you gave her a choice of 'the same thing we did that you enjoy' or 'the new thing that you might not enjoy or is mildly inconvenient' - she'll choose 'the same thing' every time.

We've had kid-free Friday nights for years, we've only went for a 1 mile walk around the neighbourhood less than 5 times, never left our small town to go to something. Most date nights are spent sitting on the couch and failing at choosing a movie or show we'll both enjoy.

She did say I could pickout the movie once, no complaints. So I chose Airplane. She said, oh, I don't want to watch that - which then kills any Airplane related jokes you could ever make. Pinocchio was also rejected as being too weird. She'll watch entire seasons of TV shows, on her phone with headphones in, as she does work around the house. She made a reference once that a song sounded like the theme to XXXX show. She'd watched all 5 seasons and I'd never even heard of the name of it.

So, ya. Find things to do together has been well explored.

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